How can this be explained?

[AngusMcDoon]

Actually, another feature of the track seems to be that it does not go more than 20 miles from land (Ireland, IoM, GB). Looking online at the Irish merchant shipping regulations suggests that elements of the construction regulations can be waived for class II passenger ships if they stay within 20M of land.

"The Minister may exempt any ship of Class II or II(A) which does not proceed more than 20 miles from the nearest land from the requirements of these Rules to the extent that he is satisfied that compliance therewith is unreasonable or impracticable by reason of the sheltered nature and conditions of the intended services of the ship. "

S.I. No. 98/1967 - Merchant Shipping (Passenger Ship Construction) Rules, 1967.

Possibly an issue was found with the construction/ condition of the ship and a special exemption was applied for?

It's only just possible. The separation between the closest points of the Isle of Man and Anglesey is 39.9 miles. There are no ports of refuge for a ship on the Isle of Man closer than Douglas. The distance from the strange route to Douglas means that the distance to the nearest suitable harbour if the ship were in trouble would be greater than if the ferry just crossed directly across the Irish Sea as per normal operation - never further than 24 miles from a suitable harbour.

 

[penfold]

Perhaps @Kukri might offer an opinion?

 

[Bru]

It's only just possible. The separation between the closest points of the Isle of Man and Anglesey is 39.9 miles. There are no ports of refuge for a ship on the Isle of Man closer than Douglas. The distance from the strange route to Douglas means that the distance to the nearest suitable harbour if the ship were in trouble would be greater than if the ferry just crossed directly across the Irish Sea as per normal operation - never further than 24 miles from a suitable harbour.

Ah but! You're being logical and sensible. However, if the regulations say "20 miles from land" then 20 miles from land it must be

 

[dom]

Seems to have reverted to normal route last night and then spent the night anchored off Dun Laoghaire.

 

[Keith 66]

Navigating around something nasty dropped on the chart?

likely similar to the RAF Shackleton that while flying a long boring run across the indian ocean the navigator asked the pilot for a 90 degree turn then back again then repeated the request the other way. The pilot did so & a while later asked "Why did we do that?" Navigator replied " We had to avoid a baked bean on the chart".

 

[Kukri]

Perhaps @Kukri might offer an opinion?

Sorry, ferries are not my thing, but my guess - and it’s just a guess - is that, given the ship seems to have reverted to normal, there may have been a defect in some item resulting in a Condition of Class pending its repair which had the effect of putting her in the “20 miles from land” category for a few days until it was fixed.

I like Mark L’s explanation - the ship temporarily changed category in the Load Line Rules.

It might have been some item taken ashore for an overhaul lasting a few days.

If that’s right, she will have been granted a Dispensation by her Flag State permitting her to operate without whatever-it-was provided she operated according to the Class 2 Rules.

 

[dom]

Sorry, ferries are not my thing, but my guess - and it’s just a guess - is that, given the ship seems to have reverted to normal, there may have been a defect in some item resulting in a Condition of Class pending its repair which had the effect of putting her in the “20 miles from land” category for a few days until it was fixed.

Sounds about right.

But seriously poor on the part of Irish Ferries to be so non-transparent about mitigating a temporary safety problem.

 

[Kukri]

Sounds about right.

But seriously poor on the part of Irish Ferries to be so non-transparent about mitigating a temporary safety problem.

Oh, I don’t know. I once had a Class 1 passenger ship - a cruise liner - which bust the starboard crankshaft - at five past eight in the morning as it happened - and we revised the schedule and operated her at lower speed on one engine for a few weeks until we did a permanent repair (by hanging off one cylinder and putting a lay shaft in so she had seven cylinders on one side and eight on the other for the rest of her very long life). We never told the passengers that she was on one engine and one regular commented that the ship was much smoother that year. We had a dispensation of course.

 

[dom]

Oh, I don’t know. I once had a Class 1 passenger ship - a cruise liner - which bust the starboard crankshaft - at five past eight in the morning as it happened - and we revised the schedule and operated her at lower speed on one engine for a few weeks until we did a permanent repair (by hanging off one cylinder and putting a lay shaft in so she had seven cylinders on one side and eight on the other for the rest of her very long life). We never told the passengers that she was on one engine and one regular commented that the ship was much smoother that year. We had a dispensation of course.

Fair enough, although while no point scaring the horses, when specifically asked a question with safety overtures - and speaking with my corporate hat on - I’m always nervous of obfuscating in any way. That said, it’s a grey area though for sure, and in your slightly different case I’d have done the same.

Amazed though that ditching a cylinder was the best way fwd, and even more amazed it was smoother! Then again, I ain’t no engineer.
?

 

[Kukri]

Had we been asked, we would have given a straight answer. Nobody asked.

More recently I had the rather surreal experience of operating a fleet of ships flying the British flag with notices at the lifeboat stations which read, “Do Not Use The Lifeboats”.

The type of (mandatory) release on load hooks fitted had been found to be unsafe and we didn’t want any Port State Control official ordering a boat drill and killing someone. There were, of course, liferafts.

After about eighteen months a new safe type of hook was developed and proven and we fitted those and took the notices down. Again, dispensations.

 

[Homer J]

The reason will, without doubt be related to money.

 

[Kukri]

The reason will, without doubt be related to money.

In the sense that it is better to keep the ship running, if it can be done so safely, than to pull her off the route whilst a defect is fixed, yes.

 

[prv]

It's only just possible. The separation between the closest points of the Isle of Man and Anglesey is 39.9 miles. There are no ports of refuge for a ship on the Isle of Man closer than Douglas.

The rule says “land”, not “harbour”.

Pete

 

[[3889]]

Actually, another feature of the track seems to be that it does not go more than 20 miles from land (Ireland, IoM, GB). Looking online at the Irish merchant shipping regulations suggests that elements of the construction regulations can be waived for class II passenger ships if they stay within 20M of land.

"The Minister may exempt any ship of Class II or II(A) which does not proceed more than 20 miles from the nearest land from the requirements of these Rules to the extent that he is satisfied that compliance therewith is unreasonable or impracticable by reason of the sheltered nature and conditions of the intended services of the ship. "

S.I. No. 98/1967 - Merchant Shipping (Passenger Ship Construction) Rules, 1967.

Possibly an issue was found with the construction/ condition of the ship and a special exemption was applied for?

Well worked out!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The rule says “land”, not “harbour”.

Pete

I know that, but Chicken Rock is not a lot of use to a stricken ferry if anything were to go wrong. Even measuring the distance to land it's very close to the limit. The point I was making was that in the event of an incident a harbour is likely to be needed, and the original route straight across the Irish Sea provides a nearer harbour suitable for a ferry than the convoluted 'letter of the law' route it was taking. A temporary relaxation of the rule allowing the ferry to go 24 miles from land (and a suitable harbour) would have made more sense than what it did.

 

[prv]

I know that, but Chicken Rock is not a lot of use to a stricken ferry if anything were to go wrong. Even measuring the distance to land it's very close to the limit..

Close is still inside, and it’s not about being useful it’s about being compliant.

Pete

 

[ProDave]

I know that, but Chicken Rock is not a lot of use to a stricken ferry if anything were to go wrong. Even measuring the distance to land it's very close to the limit. The point I was making was that in the event of an incident a harbour is likely to be needed, and the original route straight across the Irish Sea provides a nearer harbour suitable for a ferry than the convoluted 'letter of the law' route it was taking. A temporary relaxation of the rule allowing the ferry to go 24 miles from land (and a suitable harbour) would have made more sense than what it did.

It sounds like a case of the law is an ASS. The law says up to 20 miles, the law does not say it can be bent to be up to 24 miles even though to all practical purposes that would make a great deal more sense.

Was it a navigation issue? 20 miles you would still stand a chance of seeing the land in most situations

 

[Kukri]

I have spent 45 years mocking the pedantry with which shipping regulations are applied (the Titanic was in full compliance with the Board of Trade regulations for lifeboats - because they were based on gross tonnage and stopped at 10,000GRT - she was 41,000GRT). When you are building a class of ships and you are told that the bridge bog door has to be a massively heavy A60 fireproof door because the WC is an accommodation space but the wheelhouse is a working space, it helps to keep a sense of humour.

But in fairness the regulations must be applied pedantically. Otherwise you get a Greek/Egyptian/Indonesian/Filipino ferry situation in which an inch was once given and a mile is routinely taken.

 

[johnsilver2]

The news item in the first post says that the fast recovery boat is out of action therefore to comply with regs she can not sail further than 20 miles from land hence the excursion to 20 miles from IOM....

 

[Kukri]

The news item in the first post says that the fast recovery boat is out of action therefore to comply with regs she can not sail further than 20 miles from land hence the excursion to 20 miles from IOM....

Perfect, thank you.