Hookah 12Vdc direct drive air-line diving system

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david for your info when I was about 20 years i made a diving set it was a dexion frame mounted on a truck inner tube.
on this I mounted a diaphragm compressor powered by a 30 cc petrol engine the compressor was ex aircraft part the engine was ex bicycle powered engine forget name.
then connected a tube to free flow mask then tested in belfast lough how i survived to this age iwill never know.
 
Apart from the free-flow mask which has huge issues, there isn't much wrong with any of that stuff? We are living in a world where nobody has the confidence to use anything unless the intended use is clearly written on the product.

Part No. AB1 Compressor, diving, for the use of....£1000
Part No. AB2 Compressor, paint spraying, for the use of....£100

AB1 is an AB2 with the word "paint" crossed out and "diving" written in (in crayon, if you prefer /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)
 
A single diver deck unit for over 600 pounds!! That´s a bit steep to say the very least, I dont know how much the Spanish supplier is but that´s just silly money. You can buy a complete set of scuba equipment on e bay for a lot less.
 
I have just had an idea about the problem you have. go to www.marinestore.com and look for DRI-DIVER no going underwater no danger apart from spilling your beer easy to stow no help needed Regards Pete
PS I made one once to try on our old 6 ton falmouth pilot using a thin piece of platic strip which i glued on one side 6 small plastic bottles and on the other 6 green disch cleaners. we tried it from the dinghy and when we dried out the boat the only place we missed was the bottom of the keel which was 25cms wide and flat. having just come from the med you can try this anchor the boat so that the keel is just touching this way you can get onto the water to use the cleaner easier then when finnished off you go.
 
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A single diver deck unit for over 600 pounds!! That´s a bit steep to say the very least, I dont know how much the Spanish supplier is but that´s just silly money. You can buy a complete set of scuba equipment on e bay for a lot less.

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The problem is he's an engineer, so we are going to end up using a paint sprayer, some garden hose and an old snorkel taped on the end rather than the correct kit which is designed to support life under water in a safe reliable manner. The difference in prices is probably £300, that would pay for a lot of taxi rides to the dive shop to fill the cylinder back up. How often do you need to scrub a hull in the Med ?

Pete
 
Certainly not enough times to justify spending any money at all. I wipe my hull gently with my hand twice per season, enough to get all fouling off, although I confess the fish probably do more than I do.

More seriously, I have replaced a Stripper on my shaft underwater, using only mask and snorkel. It doesn't take much practice to learn to hold your breath for long enough. And I don't claim to be either young or to have sub-aqua experience.

On the other hand, for occasional use one of these compressor units does sound like fun, and at the right price could be attractive. But surely the scuba sets with the small bottle are only half the price?
 
How about going at this another way.

Once you've got a open water diving ticket any shop will hire you the full kit and caboodle. Got to be cheaper than having your own plus no kit to find a home for in that three dimensional jigsaw puzzle called a cockpit locker.
 
I´d like one of the more decent hooka type units, but not going to spend that kind of money for one, when I already have two 75 litre tanks and all the gear for two divers aboard already, never had a problem getting the cylinders filled anywhere. But you,ve just reminded me I need to get them tested this year.
 
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How about going at this another way.

Once you've got a open water diving ticket any shop will hire you the full kit and caboodle. Got to be cheaper than having your own plus no kit to find a home for in that three dimensional jigsaw puzzle called a cockpit locker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I did years ago, purely so I could hire the gear, very useful on the odd occasion the full kit is needed, plus a safer introduction too the subject.
 
Some of the prices seem quite fair but you have to look into it a bit. Even a standard workshop compressor (suitable for a hookah), a mass production item, costs £125 at a discount price, nearer to £220 list price. You have the compressor, air receiver, regulator, hoses, in-line filters, check-valves, high and low pressure trips, harness, weights, storage box, etc. The hookah style regulators are made in lower volume than scuba regulators they are different in that they work at different pressures and are adjustable. The hoses are not standard in that they have to be high temperature near the output of the compressor. The harnesses are hookah-specific.

When I look at the prices in the USA as dollar prices where there are several reputable manufacturers they fall into a band and the more expensive ones tend to offer more. In other words, this is a competitive market and within reason you get what you pay for - though the leisure boating market is always more expensive than other markets.

However, some of the US and other manufacturers are trying to sell into the European market at absurd prices and I think that is due to dealer mark-up. I have had several direct prices and only one so far who seems determined to lose the business by making me buy from his Spanish distributor so you do need to email these people and get them talking.

So there are two issues - is it a 'fair price' - i.e. are we being ripped-off and is it 'worth having'? Only you can say what it is worth to you but if you have scuba on board and (obviously) got a place reserved to store it and if you manage to get the bottles filled without trouble then it is a no-brainer - use the scuba.

However, if one only wants to service the bottom of the boat without a buddy, to keel depth, or remove a rope from the prop, then the benefit of the hookah is smaller space, no need to get a refill, unlimited usage, and far easier and more comfortable working under the boat without cylinders - all of which are undeniable. I don't know if you can be sure of buying reputable second hand scuba kit for £600 - I think you might be taking a risk - but why do that when you can buy a brand new hookah which is actually more appropriate for the job?

In particular, for the person who presently has no kit whatsoever, remember that the hookah prices are 'ready to jump into the water' (less fins, mask and snorkel of course) whereas I have never seen a complete 'ready to jump in' price for a scuba set - there always seem to be essential things missing and those bits are not cheap!

I used to have a scuba set on my father's yacht in the 1970s, which I bought in Malta (and was trained in Malta) but we found it of very little use as there was little opportunity to go recreational diving (you need a buddy or join an organised dive) and in some places (Tunis) a scuba set was illegal - I was arrested outside La Goulette for diving down to clear a net from our prop just outside the harbour, and then my scuba gear was confiscated (later returned).

I found scuba to be a pain. Do you get much use out of yours?
 
I've heard of those before and they might be useful for those who are berthed alongside. I don't think it would be easy to use from the deck and we don't moor alongside in the Med - anyway this sort of thing is done at anchor. It doesn't help with the anodes, either.

I would have thought that some of the contract deals offered by the marinas for multiple lifts over the year might be a better deal for the UK marina yachtsman? They are not available in this part of the Med (or any part of the Med that I am aware of).
 
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How about going at this another way.

Once you've got a open water diving ticket any shop will hire you the full kit and caboodle. Got to be cheaper than having your own plus no kit to find a home for in that three dimensional jigsaw puzzle called a cockpit locker.

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Very common sense alternative to spending, lots more on gear you will rarely use if not a keen diver, and, not having the experience of a proper course/tuition may well be fatal, using it for cleaning the bottom is immaterial, re the safety issues, as far as I am concerned any depth over 5' 6" is academic and potentially terminal.
 
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and, not having the experience of a proper course/tuition may well be fatal, using it for cleaning the bottom is immaterial, re the safety issues, as far as I am concerned any depth over 5' 6" is academic and potentially terminal.

[/ QUOTE ] Why do you feel that a discussion about courses and tuition is relevant to a thread that is discussing equipment? Surely these are two separate issues?
 
So sorry, sorry, to intrude David, would just be sad to see anyone get hurt using kit when they may under estimate the hazards.
 
Of course people need to be competent whatever they are doing - swimming, diving, sailing, flying, driving.... but reading through the posts on this thread you would think that some people believe hookah systems are inherently unsafe. Is that what you are saying, perhaps?
 
I think the alternative suggested by" michael_w "is an eminently sensible idea for the inexperienced. Working under water with any system is potentially hazardous perhaps?
 
Working under the boat is the main reason I did a PADI open water ticket. I have no desire to dive in chilly northern waters or look at dead ships. Tropical reef life is a different matter.

No chance of stowing any scuba gear on our 33' cruiser-racer. For tuition I'd recommend Dive Bequia.
 
Pete
as a BSAC trained diver in the 70s and the owner of a 72 cu ft bottle from that era ( I started on twin hose regs!!) I still occasionaly use the gear. I totally agree with you. Lemain you are a strange enigma, he is asking for advice but when he gets some he then starts to argue against it, He goes off and does his research and uses that to argue against the advisors that he sought advice off! Wierd.
I dabbled with a hookah set in the late 70s, a 2 stroke driven compressor floating in a ring that delivered air to a demand valve, yuck!! only tried it once, the taste of burned 2 stroke oil is not nice.
I had the bottle tested 2 years ago, had a fill, have used it twice to change the prop anode and have still got 150 ats in it.

the talk about nitrogen absorption is just a red herring, at the depths to scrub the hull it is not an issue.

filling bottles again is not an issue, you turn up, you present the bottle and as long as it doesnt look like a pile of shite they fill it. (as an aside, south of france, twin 40 cu ft bottles, bored frog, mon ami, deaux mille libres seulment, and then watch in horror as he wacks them up to 3000 psi, they didnt go bang!)

I must say that my advancing years are making me less likely to don the gear, (august this year the biggest prob was the expanding waist line, the weight belt had shrunk!) also even with the big 72 cu ft steel bottle, I still need 16 lb of lead on my weight belt.

the other thing i would say about lemain is that if he wants to experiment to buy a second hand demand valve off ebay and couple it up to a compressor, I know that the second stages run at about 140 psi BUT the demand valve is only a simple tilt valve pushed by a diaphragm, so i am reasonably certain that it will perform satisfactorily at the depth he wnats to use it at a lower pressure.

Having said that, buy the proper gear, it works, it is a well tested technology.
 
You are thirty to forty years out of touch. I also learnt SCUBA diving in the 1970s (though in the Med, not the BSAC) but unlike you I have done recent research into hookah sets, and not tried to rely on my 1970s SCUBA experience which is neither current, nor relevant.

Hookah sets today are made using regulators specifically for hookas - working at low pressures, having variable flow and with check-valves to prevent over-supply which could occur if one used a second-stage regulator by itself. The hookah set that I am leaning towards is approved by the Compressed Gas Association of America (breathing-air certification). This is mainstream technology but oddly not in the UK; presumably the BSAC are being reactionary but whatever the reason they are out of step with the rest of the world. Which is fine by me, I'm not a member and live outside their 'jurisdiction'.

I think you might be a bit confused about the nitrogen thing. There is nitrogen narcosis (which you will never, ever get at these depths) and quite separately, and a different problem, 'the bends' which is due to nitrogen dissolved in the blood frothing up when the pressure is reduced - just like the head on a pint of Guinness (and that's how Guinness gets its head, actually). The problem with a hookah is that you can stay down for very long times and it has been proven that there is no absolutely safe level for avoiding the bends. You could get the bends at only a few metres (though it would be very, very, very unlikely). The probability increases with the time spent below and with a hookah you could stay down for a week (not that you would, but you see the danger?). This has only come to light in the last decade or so, so you probably wouldn't be aware of it if all your knowledge goes back nearly forty years.

Hookas, commercially produced kits, are tried and proven technology and are available approved to the appropriate US standards. Enough said.
 
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