Honest Insurers (possible?)

dazautomatics

dazautomatics

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Northeast england
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Hi all

Having finally found our replacement blue water cruiser we are just about to hand over a cheque, so we are just about to enter the most dangrous part of sailing! (Finding a honest forthright insurance broker)

Do any of you guys have any experiances of claims good or bad?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Darren
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi all

Having finally found our replacement blue water cruiser we are just about to hand over a cheque, so we are just about to enter the most dangrous part of sailing! (Finding a honest forthright insurance broker)

Do any of you guys have any experiances of claims good or bad?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Darren

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello Darren

Glad you found the new boat. From our phone call you know my story from the hurricane. Friends who also lost boats then had very prompt and fair pay outs from Pantaenius so I have switched to them.
 
I concur with jonic - Pantaenius does have a very good reputation. I have insured with them for my forthcoming transatlantic crossing.

P.S. jonic - I read your story re: the woeful treatment you received - what a nightmare!
 
There was a big debate on scuttlebut about the non-payout for the city boy who sunk his Jeanneau recently, was that GJW. It prompted me to check my policy and Pantaenius DO cover loss or damage as a result of negligence (but not gross negligence.)

They define negligence as a faliure to take reasonable care, which results in loss or damage which could reasonably have been forseen.

Gross negligence as a reckless disregard for the safety of property and or human life.


Steve and Liz- nice ketch /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I was looking for insurance (for the first time) a couple of months ago. One issue that I discovered was that of damage consequential to wear and tear. This arose because the standing rigging on the boat was old and I wanted to clarify the situation.

The first quote I got was from noble marine. When I spoke to one of their staff I raised the issue of the standing rigging. "Thats no problem for us" he said, "if the rigging failed it would be wear and tear, so we wouldn't cover it anyway". That seemed fair, but I asked him what the situation would be if the mast fell over, then punched a hole in the hull and the boat sank. "well" he said, "that would be consequential to the wear and tear so similarly would not be covered". As you can imagine, I thanked him for his time and put the phone down; a huge percentage of total losses must be 'consequential' to damage caused by wear and tear so it seemed silly to take that risk.

To be fair to noble marine, it is possible that the person I spoke to was simply very bad at explaining the policy (or didn't understand it himself), but I did check the policy wording and could find nothing to contradict him. Besides, GJW gave me a quote that was almost half that of noble marine, and explicitly stated that damage consequential to wear and tear would be covered, so I went with them in the end.

Maybe worth bearing in mind when you're talking to the various companies.
 
Another vote for Pantaenius. We've been with them for 10+ years, inc a transat. We have had to make 4 claims for damage, 3 when the yots was in the hands of delivery skippers and 1 when someone ran into us.

Each claim was met in full with no quibbling, they are not the cheapest but definitely a company to do business with.

Regarding your bluewater cruising be aware that the premium you pay for sailing in Europe will be less than once you go outside and you might find it difficult to get cover for transats and transpacs. You'll get cover for near land but with more difficulty whilst on passage. This is as a result of the increasing number of yots being abandoned mid-ocean, for instance, I believe that 3 yots were abandoned on this year's ARC alone.
 
Check the definitions, I found I wasn't covered after an incident in Northern Spain. I had notified Pantaenius of my arrival in the Azores/Portugal hence I believed Europe. Definition is continental Europe not the islands. I should have notified them of my arrival in Spain mainland.

I was at this time paying additional premiums for Caribbean cover monthly DD. Cruised Azores and arrived in Northern Spain, had an incident, contacted insurers, sorry you never told us you had arrived in Europe, Caribbean premiums and cover was still in place at the time of the incident.

As my claim was rejected, a clause in the policy that allows the insurer to cancel my insurance was used, I get 14 days notice of cancelation.

Result no cover no pay out, and cover reduced to third party.

My fault for not reading the policy document.
 
It wasn't GJW it was Admiral and a later post made it clear that the guy was inexperienced and had conditions attached to his insurance which he failed to comply with.
 
Touch wood have only ever made one claim. but have insured and dealt with Admiral following our lightning strike . So far, (not paid yet) they have been very good to deal with and very reassuring when we were a bit 'shocked' just after the event - which at the time was a bit of a godsend. They arent cheap ,but I think you pay for what you get and, somewhat ironically, just hope you dont have to use it!
 
[ QUOTE ]
It wasn't GJW it was Admiral and a later post made it clear that the guy was inexperienced and had conditions attached to his insurance which he failed to comply with.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for that, does anyone know what the conditions were?
 
Hi all

Having used GJW I would not recommend them. We tried to use Pantaenius on our last boat but they seem to have a thing about corgi registered gas installers and I don't know about you guys but I have not as yet found one in the north east and would not trust any body but myself to work on the gas installation on my own boat.

Pantaenius maybe an option but I was just wondering if there were such a thing as a marine insurer that did not use get out clauses like “wear and tear” to avoid paying out....

Cheers

Darren
 
Try Bishop Skinner and Co. I've been with them for many years and had just one claim, all dealt with via three emails and two telephone calls. Cheque for full claim received within 3 days.
Excellent company and no silly, onerous clauses. Have a chat to Bill Southgate or Simon, both extremely knowledgable.
 
As has been stated Pantaenius has a good rep, as do Navigators, TL Dallas and Admiral.

I think one problem insurance is that people don't always look at what they are buying. Things to particuarly consider in yacht insurance are:

* cruising grounds
* crew requirements
* seaonality
* new for old?
* levels of negligence
* deductibles

I've known people end up with big losses because by the time they had deductibles for named storms, their base dedcutible (or excess) and wear and tear a £20k claim was down to £5k. But it was all in the policy document and they thought they had cheap insurance.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you very rarely get what you don't pay for.
 
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