Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Am I by law now obliged to fit a holding tank? Does a porta potti tpe arrangement cover this. CHEERS
Holding tanks
- Thread starter Wansworth
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A
Anonymous
Guest
Not in Spain if you are a British flagged vessel.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
aah! I shall have to ask a Spanish official then, although Ihave not seen any shore side facilities for pumping out, but there could well be a law ........ in Spain nothing is quite what it seems totally laid back then wham .......ven usted conmigo a capitaineria!
MedMan
Well-Known Member
As Lemain says, if you have a British flagged vessel then it has to comply only with British laws which do not require a holding tank. However, if you are moored within a Harbour area and that area has local regulations prohibiting the discharge of black water and/or grey water, then you are bound by those regulations and can be fined if you contravene them. Put another way, you may not be obliged to fit a holding tank, but that does not give you the right to pump out over board.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Well you are perfectly correct and if I one day have a boat floating ill use the harbour faciities,although hereabouts in Galicia the fishermen have gone a longway towards destroying the hbitat,It wasmore a from a legal stand point as the boat I probably can afford will only have space for a porta potti,soon it will be universalto have holding tanks.
Sultans_Kapitein
RIP
Just attended a Shore based Day Skipper course, part of literature given was a leaflet about waste disposal, Oil, galley waste, sewage etc etc. According to this contact their web site (www.rya.org.uk) for more specific info, did this got no where. No one seems to know if there are regulations, other than local harbour authority onse that is, which require the fitting and mandatory usage of holding tanks, but everything seems to imply that this is the case. I am having my boat gutted and re-fitted so I want to know before we start re-instating the panelling and sole. Any help any one. I know it it obviously best for environment so I have no problem with fitting holding tank(s) I just want to know if I am likely to fall fowl (sorry for that) of any regulations.
Thanks in anticipation
Mal
Thanks in anticipation
Mal
colinroybarrett
Well-Known Member
If you are building and have the room, fit a holding tank. If not now, then sooner or later it will become mandatory assuming the ‘Greenies’ keep gaining power.
Our ‘loo’ and shower both empty into the tank, and then we have a diaphragm pump to empty it overboard. In three years of cruising Europe (inland) we have only seen two toilet pump-outs so the ability to ‘self-empty is essential.
Our ‘loo’ and shower both empty into the tank, and then we have a diaphragm pump to empty it overboard. In three years of cruising Europe (inland) we have only seen two toilet pump-outs so the ability to ‘self-empty is essential.
pernoll
Member
If you feel OK to swim in "pooh", even toilet paper, in crystal clear Croatian or Greek waters, go ahead and irritate your neighbour, as we experienced from a "boat with red in their flag". Sailing in British water with tide should take care of it all, untill all is polluted. To make a holding tank use polypropylen materials, as "pooh" is very corrosive, eating up our best quality stainless steel tank in a couple of years with daily use. Specially the gas is the most agressive.
Abaker
Well-Known Member
Experience in inland, coastal, and offshore waters in Canada, US, UK, & France shows that:
1. Holding tanks are a necessary evil.
2. No holding tank is ever big enough.
3. Pumpout facilities ashore are non-existent in many places.
4. A tank level gauge (recommend Tank-Tender) is essential to avoid overfilling, with nasty consequences.
5. For offshore cruising or any cruising away from pumpout facilities for more than a very few days, a Y-valve and capability to discharge via throughhull are essential.
6. Capability to pump out via throughhull is virtually essential.
7. Laws, regulations, and enforcement vary greatly from place to place, and it's impossible to construct an installation that will comply with all of them and still be usable for liveaboard cruising.
8. Use the best "sanitation" hose, i.e. white PVC helix.
9. Use the stongest Y-valve, e.g. Jabsco or Whale.
10. Organize hoses without any low spots, where calcium deposits etc. will accumulate. Jabsco Y-valve facilitates this; Whale makes it difficult.
11. For a simple marine toilet nothing beats Lavac.
12. Pumping everything right through every time, with Lavac or anything else, will often fill the holding tank in a weekend. Failing to pump right through will increase the build-up of calcium deposits.
13. Any system will plug or break sometime, so carry a backup bucket with a rim you can sit on. Two heads would mean twice as many bits to repair.
14. Our original-equipment setup was legal in California when the boat was built there in 1989. The toilet pumps through an inverted U to a Y-valve, which branches to the throughhull or holding tank. The holding tank can be pumped out through a deck fitting, or through the throughhull via a built-in diaphram pump, with a shutoff valve in one hose to prevent things going the wrong direction. It works fine, and we have never been charged or fined. However, we were threatened once in Canadian inland waters (where any black-water discharge is illegal), not for discharging, but for having an illegal setup.
15. We have so far avoided cruising anywhere grey water discharge is illegal. There is simply not room for a grey water tank. Regulations which forbid discharging water from dishwashing or showering presumably also forbid bathing in the sea!
15. If cruising was easy, everyone would be doing it.
1. Holding tanks are a necessary evil.
2. No holding tank is ever big enough.
3. Pumpout facilities ashore are non-existent in many places.
4. A tank level gauge (recommend Tank-Tender) is essential to avoid overfilling, with nasty consequences.
5. For offshore cruising or any cruising away from pumpout facilities for more than a very few days, a Y-valve and capability to discharge via throughhull are essential.
6. Capability to pump out via throughhull is virtually essential.
7. Laws, regulations, and enforcement vary greatly from place to place, and it's impossible to construct an installation that will comply with all of them and still be usable for liveaboard cruising.
8. Use the best "sanitation" hose, i.e. white PVC helix.
9. Use the stongest Y-valve, e.g. Jabsco or Whale.
10. Organize hoses without any low spots, where calcium deposits etc. will accumulate. Jabsco Y-valve facilitates this; Whale makes it difficult.
11. For a simple marine toilet nothing beats Lavac.
12. Pumping everything right through every time, with Lavac or anything else, will often fill the holding tank in a weekend. Failing to pump right through will increase the build-up of calcium deposits.
13. Any system will plug or break sometime, so carry a backup bucket with a rim you can sit on. Two heads would mean twice as many bits to repair.
14. Our original-equipment setup was legal in California when the boat was built there in 1989. The toilet pumps through an inverted U to a Y-valve, which branches to the throughhull or holding tank. The holding tank can be pumped out through a deck fitting, or through the throughhull via a built-in diaphram pump, with a shutoff valve in one hose to prevent things going the wrong direction. It works fine, and we have never been charged or fined. However, we were threatened once in Canadian inland waters (where any black-water discharge is illegal), not for discharging, but for having an illegal setup.
15. We have so far avoided cruising anywhere grey water discharge is illegal. There is simply not room for a grey water tank. Regulations which forbid discharging water from dishwashing or showering presumably also forbid bathing in the sea!
15. If cruising was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Westering
New Member
One point not mentioned is capacity - except for 'it's never big enough'.... I have a Lavac. Mostly 2 (will from next summer!) be living on board, and I intend to fitn a tank. Suggestions as to size welcomed.
Abaker
Well-Known Member
Re suggestions as to size. Good question; no good answers. The Henderson pump Lavac uses is rated at up to 75 litres/minute. If you and your crew each pump for 15 seconds per day then the two of you might need a 75 litre tank for a two-day weekend. West Marine lists holding tanks from 3 US gal (11 litres) to 55 US gal (208 litres). In the end it comes down to whatever you can fit into the boat, and whatever economy measures you adopt. Remember that from a moral/environmental point of view, faeces are the real problem, loaded with coliform etc. Urine is sterile. Unfortunately, urine is the culprit that produces calcium deposits in the system when mixed with seawater and not flushed through.
MedMan
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Remember that from a moral/environmental point of view, faeces are the real problem, loaded with coliform etc. Urine is sterile.
[/ QUOTE ] It's not quite that simple and it depends upon how widely you are using the term 'environment'. It is true that faecal coliforms are a health hazard if sufficiently concentrated but faeces are quickly eaten by fish or broken down by micro organisms. Urine, on the other hand, adds extra nitrogen to the water which can cause algal blooms that can be devastating to the environment.
I've exaggerated in the other direction I admit - it is a very complex business with many inter-related factors. But please don't anyone think urine is harmless - it isn't.
Remember that from a moral/environmental point of view, faeces are the real problem, loaded with coliform etc. Urine is sterile.
[/ QUOTE ] It's not quite that simple and it depends upon how widely you are using the term 'environment'. It is true that faecal coliforms are a health hazard if sufficiently concentrated but faeces are quickly eaten by fish or broken down by micro organisms. Urine, on the other hand, adds extra nitrogen to the water which can cause algal blooms that can be devastating to the environment.
I've exaggerated in the other direction I admit - it is a very complex business with many inter-related factors. But please don't anyone think urine is harmless - it isn't.
Abaker
Well-Known Member
I agree with MedMan that adding nitogen compounds to the water can be environmentally bad and that the environmental issues are complex. However, if pumpout facilities are available onshore, the effluent still goes into the water but by a different route via municipal treatment facilities. I suspect that most of those facilities do not attempt to reduce the nitrogen content of the effluent. If my suspicion is correct, then using the holding tank for urine just moves the potential algal bloom to a different place.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
In the perfect world the holding tank would be part of a total water re cycle system,but for yachts to be singled out when there are no facilities provided does not make sense.Do aircraft pump out in airports or over some suposedly empty stretch of sea,unlike cruise ships who i am sure save their rubbish to put in the wheelie bin!