Holding Tanks

Re: Pipe size problems

John gets the cigar! :) The proper solution is an inline radius fitting...although Brendan's guess could work IF there's enough room for a larger radius bend and the top of the bend were supported so it can't fall and collapse.

That hose is the standard 1.5" size for sanitation systems. 1.5" inline radius fittings aren't that hard to find...at least not here in the US...the only hard part is the hose adapter, which SeaLand has along with a complete assortment of inline fittings (for 5x the price they're sold at hardware and plumbing supply stores). They don't show fittings on their website, but this vendor does: http://www.sealandservices.com/hose_fittings.htm (scroll down to the fittings). I'm not suggesting you order from them...this is just to show you what's available and the factory part #s. The hose connector--which cements into each end of the fitting--is the only thing you shouldn't be able to find locally...and you should be able to get those from any UK SeaLand dealer.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
 
Yes me too I flushed the loo and then dived overboard with mask and snorkel to see what happened . It was quite beautiful with all those little white specs glinting in the sunshine . Did not see any of the other stuff though although a pal of mine who had a tummy bug got the fish very excited in the morning in the big bay at Cabrera .

Its ok with a new loo but once sea water mixes with urine it leaves a hard deposit on the loo internals which eventually traps paper and blocks the works . You only have to dismantle one to see the evidence

used paper in a bag is the right way to go and gets disposed of with all the other rubbish any way . the alternative is to have a waterjet flush installed on the loo as in middle eastern countries
On the other hand empting the holding tank out at sea was a very obvious and smelly exercise



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"... once sea water mixes with urine it leaves a hard deposit on the loo internals..."

It's actually sea water calcium carbonates that build up in head hoses...it will happen with or without urine in the mix. It can be prevented by just flushing a cupful of undiluted white vinegar down the head once a week. 2-3 times a year, disconnect the head intake hose from the thru-hull...stick it in a jug of white vinegar and pump about a quart through. It works best when the head won't be used again at least overnight.

It's also important each time the head is used to put enough flush water through behind the bowl contents to rinse all the waste and TP out of the hose.

Do NOT leave vinegar sitting the bowl, though... Although vinegar just passing through the joker valve and other rubbers bits in the head won't damage them, leaving soft rubber to soak in vinegar causes the rubber to swell and distort.


<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
 
So why do calcium carbonates build up in loo piping and no where else . Is there something in the loo that stimulates the deposit . I opened up my old head before I threw it away and found that the inside was coated with little yellow ish plukes that made the inside surface like a cheese grater . Is it soemthing in the rubber hoses ?

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Sea water calcium carbonates DO build up in other raw water intake hoses. In fact, it can be a real problem in engine water intake and exhaust hoses, especially in warm waters. However, it's not typically yellow bits, but more like salts...in fact, can be mistaken for salt by people who don't know what it is.

I have no idea what the yellow bits could be...'cuz urine crystals aren't all that yellow either...they're light brown or tan in color (just 'cuz urine is yellow when it comes out of you doesn't mean it stays that color). Possibly the remains of some animal or vegetable sea life that got sucked up into the head??? Was it only inside the pump? Or was the head discharge hose full of it too? 'Cuz if it were urine crystals, they'd actually be more likely to be in the hoses than in the pump....pumping in flush water would rinse 'em out of the pump, but not necessarily out of the head discharge hose if you don't flush long enough to rinse out the hose.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
 
Well to be quite honest with you I dismantled the old loo 2 years ago and my reactions were perhaps coloured by the assumption that it was urea so on reflection it may well have been more off white .
The encrustations were all over the inside piping including the joker valve but I did not notice any deposits on the inlet flush pipe which also let to my conclusion that the reaction happened after the bowl so to speak . Have not noticed same in any other piping The boat at that time had only been a year in the Med .

In the part of the Med I now keep the boat in there is more worry about phenominal coral growth affecting sea cocks and hulls . Left the boat for a month in August after bottom scrape and on return substantial coral growth on hull - quite pretty stars, fingers and the like necessitating donning snorkel , mask and using paint scraper about two hour's work . On opening head cocks get scrunching noise .I now take my log transducer out when not sailing -water temperature was 26 degrees Celsius plus . I suppose because Med quite salty good cocktail for growth both chemical and biological

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Holding Tanks -winterising, emptying

Peggy:
Have read all your info - great stuff thanks

Can I ask a couple of different questions please?

First, what should we do with a boat that is pretty much laid up for winter? Right now the hold tank has been emptied by the discharge pump but no doubt has a few inches of stuff in the bottom. I wondered if I should open the deck outlet and pour soap into it, then fill it with fresh water from hosepipe, then discharge the tank at sea, and repeat 3 times or something. Should i do this? If so, what soap/cleaner should I put into the tank? Or is it ok just to leave it for the winter? Or should I put the cleaner soap down the toilet bowl so it passes thru the vacuum units, so as to clean them too? Or should i squirt some of the chemical loo stuff in there?

Second, have you discovered a smart way to know when the pump has emptied the tank? We have the sealand guage system with 4 LEDs. I open the seacock from the helm (electric), run the macerator pump to empty the tank, and should stop when the guage LED shows empty. But often the contents guage is slow to react as there is crap on it inside the tank, so the macerator pump can inadvertently be run dry, which according to the manual isn't good for it (though I have a full spare on baord at all times). So I fitted an ammeter in the pump wire hoping it would draw say 7 or 8 amps when pumping then drop to say 3 amps when finished, and that would tell me. But it doesn't, the current difference between pumping and free running is about 1 amp max (as there is the friction in the macerator blades I guess) so the ammeter doesn't really tell me when the pump has finished. So any other ideas? Or is it ok to run macerator pumps dry for longer than it says in the book?

We have sealand Vacuflush, normal plastic holding tank, Johnson discharge pump (and ref a thread a few months back, I fitted electric seacock to the macerator pump discharge pipe)

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Re: Holding Tanks -winterising, emptying

Here's what you need to do for the winter:

1. Pump holding tank out, then rinse thoroughly by completely filling with fresh water and 1 gallon of white vinegar twice. You can use some low suds detergent (any "heavy duty" laundry detergent will do) if you want to...in fact, a gallon of it would be a good way to clean the buildup of animal fats off the TankWatch senders...let it sit for a few days. The tank will still have about an inch of water in it after you've pumped it out

2. Since you have a VacuFlush, just pour a gallon of non-toxic potable antifreeze down the toilet into the holding tank.

4. After the boat comes out of the water, open all the sea cocks to drain any trapped water.

That's all you need to do for the sanitation system. However, you also need to winterize your fresh water system:

1. Drain the water tanks completely (just turn on all the faucets).

2. Drain water heater. Most have a drain petcock; follow manufacturer’s instructions to find it and use it. Remove both the inlet and outlet hoses, and if necessary use a shop vac to be sure of gettting all the water out of it.

3.Connect water heater inlet and outlet hoses together. Bypass kits for this purpose are available from boat stores and RV supply stores.

4. Add non-toxic antifreeze ("the pink stuff") and pump that through the system until all outlets--hot and cold in the galley, head, shower, and any deck wash--run only antifreeze. Leave all the faucets open to make sure there is no pressure in the system.

As for whether it's ok to run your macerator dry for longer than recommended...no! Running it dry creates dry friction heat that wears the edges of the impeller vanes...which first reduces the efficiency of the pump and eventually won't move anything through it. If you've been doing that, I recommend you replace the impeller next spring as preventive maintenance--even if it LOOKS fine...there's only a hair's breadth difference between impeller vanes that are still long enough to create good suction, and vanes that have become too worn to move anything.

Fwiw, Johnson and Jabsco impeller macerator pumps move approx 12 gal/minute...so it shouldn't be too hard to estimate how long it should take to empty your tank. You could also fill the tank with water and watch the level drop with a watch in your hand to time it.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
 
Re: Holding Tanks -winterising, emptying

Thanks peggy for all that advice

One question - if I do the vinegar thing and then the soap thing, does it matter whether I add these things into the holding tank thru the deck outlet or via the toilet bowls? I mean, is it ok to run vinegar and soap thru the vacu system?

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Re: Holding Tanks -winterising, emptying

Peggy, My father used to use dilute hydrochloric acid in his toilets every couple of months and had no problem with scale after starting that policy - my parents lived aboard a 45' motor yacht in the Med for much of the time, for nearly 20 years. Do you have any comments about the choice of vinegar (acetic acid) vs hydrochloric acid?

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Re: Holding Tanks -winterising, emptying

Jfm, put the detergent and vinegar (not together) down the toilet...it will also clean out your hoses, vacuum tank and vacuum pump. But don't just empty a jug of liquid detergent into the bowl and flush...fill the bowl to the rim with a mix of water and detergent several times. After you've let the detergent solution sit in the tank for a few days to give it time to clean your gauge senders--and if you can go sailing and tack a lot at least once, even better--pump that out...then add about a gallon of vinegar to the rinse water. Also add the antifreeze through the toilet bowl.

Lemain, White vinegar is a preventive...hydrochloric acid is a cure. White vinegar used weekly is acidic enough to dissolve sea water minerals before they can build up....and can also dissolve even a heavy build-up, but that's a time consuming job that requires multiple applications. Hydrochloric acid every few months is just a quick way to dissolve a buildup without harm to the toilet or hoses. However, it's also nasty stuff to handle. Using vinegar once a week should prevent the need to use hydrochloric (also known as muriatic) acid at all.

White vinegar also has the added advantage of lowering the pH level...and the lower the pH, the more sluggish bacterial activity becomes, which helps to prevent--or at least retard--hoses from permeating with odor.

Wonderful stuff, vinegar...has multiple uses, yet is totally benign. Just don't mix it with bleach...that produces an even more deadly gas than that produced by mixing bleach and ammonia.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
 
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