holding tanks mandatory

The bottom line is that the march towards limiting pumping, chucking or in any way propelling sewage into the sea is inexorable.THere is confusion over the regulations and their application and in my experience the Dutch have made the best fist of it, with clear rules backed by ( again in my experience) widely available pump out facilities. Other countries and areas are not so clear and this raises the danger of "local" application practices and different interpretations of the law together with a bit of freelance fining activities.

Having retro-fitted a holding tank system to our Westerly prior to our trip to the Med and back , it is not a task for the faint-hearted. However I do feel that our cruising ground remains and will remain as broad as we want it without the risk of falling foul of the authorities.

Of course some boats will require substantial modifications to accommodate a holding tank arrangement and the relevant diverter valve systems. In that case ( especially if the cruising is comparatively short haul) a Porta Potti may provide the answer. Having used one extensively when camping and in our first boat (a Winkle Brig) I have to say that it is not the best answer, but it is an answer.

I take Vyv.s point about pollution from the shore, but that should not give us licence to add to the problem, perhaps we should show that we who enjoy the sea are taking the initiative to keep it clean.
 
ound this article which seems to cover it. http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/Pages/holdingtanks.aspx. Seems that when discharge is banned in territorial waters then that is up to 12 miles offshore so Spain seems to be one where care should be taken.

Does surprise me a little, after all, moderate quantities of sewerage from boats does not compare to the problems caused by big untreated outfalls. The former is easily broken down by the environment the latter is not. Human excrement is as natural as any other animal's but surely it is the huge concentrations that humans cause which lead to problems. I can, therefore, see the need for sensible regulation banning discharge into inland waters, harbours and other enclosed areas: particularly where there are no significant tides. But discharging from small boats into open water, say 1 or 2 miles offshore at least superficially, does not strike me as likely to cause a problem, even in the Med. Now I'm a big lad and suppose that I can produce, perhaps, a much as ¼ ltr at one sitting. Discharging that into open water means that it will very rapidly be dispersed and diluted to very few parts per million. Can it then constitute a problem or is it quickly broken down by micro-organisms?

I will continue to use my holding tank when in enclosed harbours and anchorages, particularly if swimmers are active, but will pump out at sea when on er... passage. It would be good to see some evidence of damage to the environment or genuine health risk. However, all we are presented with is legislation and regulation. Obviously I will comply with local legislation, however, I have a holding tank and so that is easy. Just strikes me a legislation or regulation for it's own sake, rather like the banning of selling of new 2 stroke outboards. Is the discharge of raw sewerage from small boats actually a problem?
 
ColinR said:
I just read in the latest Cruising magazine that holding tanks are now mandatory in Dutch, Danish, Spanish, Greek, Turkish and French waters. Does anyone know any more about this? Do I really have to fit a holding tank before I next go across the Channel or to NW Spain?

cheers, Colin
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Have not found a shore side waste water tank yet in the Rias,normal practice is to go to marina shower block and empty porta potti...dont use the wc whilst in harbour as it may be still with you come daylight!!!
 
Years ago the best and biggest mackerel caught off West Bay (Dorset) were to be found off the end of the sewage outfall.

Earlier this year the Harbour Master in Barmouth (N. Wales) recommended fishing off the sewage outfall pipe a mile or so up the coast!

Now what does that tell us?

I rest my case (which was getting heavy anyway!).
 
mogy said:
Have not found a shore side waste water tank yet in the Rias,normal practice is to go to marina shower block and empty porta potti...dont use the wc whilst in harbour as it may be still with you come daylight!!!
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After a few bevies one night, I took it upon myself to pump out our holding tank whilst in the marina in Bilbao. Huge brown stain spread throughout the marina, god knows what people thought when they flushed their own toilets, and quite an obvious mpong was left the next day. Didn't make that mistake twice.:eek:
 
ColinR said:
I just read in the latest Cruising magazine that holding tanks are now mandatory in Dutch, Danish, Spanish, Greek, Turkish and French waters. Does anyone know any more about this? Do I really have to fit a holding tank before I next go across the Channel or to NW Spain?

cheers, Colin
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Fit one ....it's not a difficult job,and keeps everybody happy.
 
jamesmar said:
Fit one ....it's not a difficult job,and keeps everybody happy.
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I live in France and sail out of La Rochelle and can so no evidence whatsoever that French yachties are fitting holding tanks in any great number or that any of the ports are or authorities are requiring them.

La Rochelle, as opposed to Les Minimes, has a couple of basins behind lock gates and there is no insistence on holding tanks and I suspect not all the 'liveaboards' are using the shower block!!! Mind you the port has a certificate for being very green!!!!!
 
We sailed from west coast of Scotland to Nth tip of spain (cross Biscay) down potugal into Gib, into the Med. Now in Almerimar Spain. No one ever asked us if we have a holding tank. We have one but very rarely used.

Peter
 
djbreeze said:
That's more than a slight over simplification, not at all cheap, can be very awkward, etc., etc...
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I agree with jamesmar. Fitted a 140 litre tank to our previous mobo, less than £400 for the total job. That included having a custom-made five-sided tank (Tek-Tanks - great outfit) and all hoses, pump, diverter and fittings. A lot of the 'awkwardness' can be managed out of this task once you realise custom-made does not mean expensive.
 
I live in Germany and cruise Dutch waters extensively every year. I'm lucky enough to speak German and Dutch fluently and have followed the debate.

There is no mandatory requirement in either country for private recreational craft to have holding tanks or seal up through-hulls, etc. The only statutory requirement on equipment is that new craft cannot be marketed without holding tanks that can be pumped out.

You can flush pee and toilet paper out of the heads till you heart's content - it's not illegal. The prohibitions relate only to "black water", e.g. poo. This may not be released into any territorial waters (even 11.5nm offshore). To enforce sanctions against you, however, the authorities must have evidence beyond reasonable doubt that you disgorged poo into the water. Affidavits from three skippers in an anchorage might qualify, I suppose, if you're stupid and anti-social enough to do that, but in most cases the poo police have to catch you brown-handed. Pretty darned difficult, in my experience.

What most of us do in NL is simple: if we're in open water we flush and be done. If we're in an anchorage or another sensitive area (or rafted up against a coastguard vessel) we put a liner bag in the bowl, remove and tie it afterwards. These can be bought in most chandleries, and frankly a freezer bag is just as good.

Hope this helps.

WindyOut
 
Is there any money in patenting a nappie for ducks? I can see the case for in an enclosed marina, but one poo a day does no one any harm.The harm is done with holding tanks on inland waterways where narrow boats put formaldehyde (a poison to wild life)in their tanks to stop them smelling then discharge them when on the move.
 
pheran said:
I agree with jamesmar. Fitted a 140 litre tank to our previous mobo, less than £400 for the total job. That included having a custom-made five-sided tank (Tek-Tanks - great outfit) and all hoses, pump, diverter and fittings. A lot of the 'awkwardness' can be managed out of this task once you realise custom-made does not mean expensive.
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I am guessing that you have plenty of space and were able to fit a standard tank? A custom tank to fit an awkward space in a yacht will cost more than your total. I have a 50 litre tank for my Sadler 34 on order from Tek-tanks, cost of the tank alone is £460.
 
jamesmar said:
It was a mornings work and the cost was £108.06. 4 years ago.
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OK I'm happy for you but to me spending what realistically is going to be more like 4 hundred quid upwards when you don't have to is just one of the reasons why I would have a Porta Potti instead. All I'm saying is that fitting a holding tank is not the optimum solution for everyone and that can be for lots of reasons...
 
vyv_cox said:
I am guessing that you have plenty of space and were able to fit a standard tank? A custom tank to fit an awkward space in a yacht will cost more than your total. I have a 50 litre tank for my Sadler 34 on order from Tek-tanks, cost of the tank alone is £460.
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Standard tank? Hardly - as I said in my original post, it was 5-sided. Haven't seen any like that in the catalogues!! It had to fit into a restricted space and the only way in was by lowering it from above. To ensure I'd got the dimensions absolutely right (there was no lee-way for mistakes and only 5mm clearance in any direction), I made up a dummy tank in hardboard, ensured that fitted, marked where I wanted the connections then turned the 'model' over to the fabricators. The cost was £185 and although that was 8 years ago and prices have inevitably risen, I can't believe they've gone up to that extent, especially as my tank was 3 times the capacity of yours.


ps more accurately, it was a seven-sided tank. In my simplistic way, I always thought of it as 5 sides and 2 ends!!
 
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