Holding tanks - is anyone serious?

[Fourbees]

I think holding tanks are a good idea, and had one fitted on the last boat when about to sail in Holland (where they require them, but also provide lots of pump-out facilities). Our new boat has a holding tank too, and on Saturday we sailed from Portsmouth to Cowes (like hundreds of other boats!). Passing Shepards Wharf, where Cowes Harbour Commissioners provide free, public pump-out facilities, we called on VHF to request use of the facility. We were told we couldn't, as they had berthed a large motorboat on the pump-out berth! Returning back down the river yesterday, we tried again, and this time they moved the boat for us. We then found that their pump wasn't working (which they hadn't realised!). Arriving back in Portsmouth Harbour, we called Gunwharf Quays, to be told their pump was also unserviceable!

We're based at Port Solent, where they only offer pump-out on weekdays with 24 hours notice, despite being a large marina, and when we visited Swanwick a few weeks ago they tried to charge us £42 despite us being Premier bertholders! Our recent experience suggests that people on the crowded South Coast only pay lip service to the idea of sewage-free water - in reality nobody seems to give a monkey's. Is legislation needed?

 

[pathfinderstu]

As soon as the relevant government agencies realise there is money to be made out of enforcing it there will be legislation.

 

[DJE]

Is legislation needed?

Questions:-

1. Is there a problem with water quality on bathing beaches on "the crowded South Coast"?

2. Would legislation against yachtsmen materially reduce it?

Answers:-

1. No. Except when the water authorities' storm overflows operate in wet weather or power failures. Then the volume discharged dwarfs anything that the boating population put into the water.

2. No. Unless you want to spend a fortune on enforcement.


(Anecdotally I understand that there are very few queues for the much vaunted Dutch pump out facilities suggesting that a lot of people there are emptying their holding tanks at sea.)

 

[JumbleDuck]

Is legislation needed?

No.

 

[Wandering Star]

Is legislation needed?

Absolutely. We need to legislate against people who call for holding tank legislation.

 

[Storyline]

Absolutely. We need to legislate against people who call for holding tank legislation.

+1

Does anyone think that the toilet waste from the number of leisure boats we have around the coast of the UK actually does any measurable harm to the environment if pumped out at sea ?

Fwiw, I reckon more harm is done by the detergents, cooking oils etc that are drained from the galley/heads sink than the bodily solids than come from the heads (am not qualified to comment - just a feeling).

 

[jac]

Absolutely. We need to legislate against people who call for holding tank legislation.

+1

To compare with Dutch waters is crazy. The Dutch have extensive inland waterways where a holding tank is a great idea.

Taking it several miles offshore and dumping into an area of high tidal flow is very very different.

 

[roblpm]

Legislation making seals and whales use toilets??

 

[sailorman]

+1

To compare with Dutch waters is crazy. The Dutch have extensive inland waterways where a holding tank is a great idea.

Taking it several miles offshore and dumping into an area of high tidal flow is very very different.

BUT few pump-outs available

 

[JumbleDuck]

BUT few pump-outs available

Never underestimate the strength of Calvinist bowel control.

 

[Fourbees]

No.

I'm not in favour of forcing people to fit tanks, in case you wondered - but surely large marina operators could be legally obliged to fit pump-out facilities? Firms like MDL and Premier spend millions on new heads blocks, new boatyard facilities etc. - yet there's no doubt that people still use sea toilets in marinas, especially in the middle of the night, and discharging sewage in confined waters like that is not a great idea for the environment, is it? Even those who have holding tanks won't be encouraged to use them (or those that haven't to get one) if they can only dump the contents at sea! Incidentally, in France new boats now have to be fitted with a holding tank - surely that's a good start too?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'm not in favour of forcing people to fit tanks, in case you wondered - but surely large marina operators could be legally obliged to fit pump-out facilities? Firms like MDL and Premier spend millions on new heads blocks, new boatyard facilities etc. - yet there's no doubt that people still use sea toilets in marinas, especially in the middle of the night, and discharging sewage in confined waters like that is not a great idea for the environment, is it?

I am wholly in favour of keelhauling - preferably in sewage polluted water - anyone who flushes sh*t in a marina, but I would prefer the justice to be dispensed by a pitchfork-wielding vigilante crowd than by the full majesty of the law. I fear that anyone too damn lazy to use a marina toilet will also be too damn lazy to putter round to a pump out station when their holding tank fills up.

 

[lw395]

It's pretty common for Solent and Channel sailing to involve being ashore at least once a day.
The heads on a great many yachts only get used for peeing in.
It's generally not that big a problem.

 

[prv]

surely large marina operators could be legally obliged to fit pump-out facilities?

What would be the point, when clearly nobody is using the ones that exist?

there's no doubt that people still use sea toilets in marinas, especially in the middle of the night, and discharging sewage in confined waters like that is not a great idea for the environment, is it?

If people have holding tanks, then they're not discharging sewage in confined waters (I certainly hope nobody's inconsiderate enough to empty a whole tank in a marina basin!). If they don't have holding tanks (and you've said you don't want to force them to), then your idea of mandatory pumpouts is irrelevant to them, isn't it?

Even those who have holding tanks won't be encouraged to use them (or those that haven't to get one) if they can only dump the contents at sea!

It's surely easier to empty a tank at sea than to cast off, motor round to the pump-out, tie up again, find someone to come and operate it, handle the poo-hose (which surely feels mucky even if it isn't really), wait while it does its thing, etc etc etc. To empty at sea with a well-designed modern tank, you just open one valve, leave it for a bit, then close it again. So for anyone who actually sails their boat (and hence is back out to sea long before the tank fills up), why use the pumpout? This is why nobody does, and does it cause any problem? Not that I can see.

Pete

 

[lw395]

What would be the point, when clearly nobody is using the ones that exist?

...It's surely easier to empty a tank at sea than to cast off, motor round to the pump-out, tie up again, find someone to come and operate it, handle the poo-hose (which surely feels mucky even if it isn't really), wait while it does its thing, etc etc etc. To empty at sea with a well-designed modern tank, you just open one valve, leave it for a bit, then close it again. So for anyone who actually sails their boat (and hence is back out to sea long before the tank fills up), why use the pumpout? This is why nobody does, and does it cause any problem? Not that I can see.

Pete

Emptying your tank at sea is basically cutting out the middle man, as in many places the sewage is still dumped in the sea untreated.

 

[Concerto]

Discharging into the sea by yachts is minimal compared to the amount discharged by houseboats. Yachts are used generally for a limited number of days a year, whereas houseboats are used every day of the year.

Close to my club is a large number of houseboats on the foreshore and a drying marina just downstream. Most of the solid matter stays in the tidal marina and can cause a whiff or worse. One man dropped a tool off his boat into the soft mud and plunged his arm in to retreive it. He then washed it off and thought nothing more about it until his skin started reacting some hours later. He ended up in hospital for over 3 months and nearly died of blood poisioning. It took over a year for his skin to clear up and has left him with a very poor immune system. There is no requirement for house boats not to discharge overboard.

For the record I am in a locked basin marina with excellent toilet facilities and I have a holding tank on my boat, so never discharge into any marina. The holding tank was fitted a long time ago before I purchase the boat and only has a sea discharge facility. Due to it's position it may not be possible for it to be easily adapted to a deck discharge. So emptying the tank only happens when in the estuary and out of the river.

Should holding tanks be made compulsory? For new yachts yes, but old one should be able to make the choice for themselves as not all of the smaller old boats would find it very easy to retro fit an adequate holding tank.

 

[Searush]

Emptying your tank at sea is basically cutting out the middle man, as in many places the sewage is still dumped in the sea untreated.

not for official users it isn't. There may still be some small individual dwellings & houseboats that do it, but all domestic waste is properly treated before discharge, except in the case of a storm drain overflow situation. that is why so many beaches are now declared safe for swimming (unless measured after a storm or floods)

 

[prv]

Should holding tanks be made compulsory? For new yachts yes

I'd support that, possibly with a minimum size limit (the boat, not the tank )

We don't have a tank on Ariam, and the only sensible place to fit one would prevent us carrying the dinghy (which is already the smallest we can get away with). I don't believe our usual habits produce undue pollution.

Pete

 

[lw395]

not for official users it isn't. There may still be some small individual dwellings & houseboats that do it, but all domestic waste is properly treated before discharge, except in the case of a storm drain overflow situation. that is why so many beaches are now declared safe for swimming (unless measured after a storm or floods)

That doesn't include the long sea outfalls does it?

 

[Seven Spades]

There was a report on this forum just a few weeks ago where there was a research paper that compared the volume of water in a bay with the contents of holding tanks and if they all emptied their tanks the result would be concentration level of 0.00001/billion or some other equally ridicolous concentration level. In addition there was also a report that there were beneficial effects to sea life from the release of nutrients. Both of these statements may be true but sewage can also convey illnesses to humans. The reality is that there unlikely to be any adverse side effects to any beach from yachts. The number of people along a beach who run into the sea for a pee with dwaf the boats by 100's to 1.