holding tanks again

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LadyJessie

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There are still a lot of cruisers here in the Med that just have not understood the concept of the holding tank. There is this very strange belief that you do not have to use a holding tank if you do not think there is a 'pumping out station' close by. What an odd concept. This misconception seems to be held in a higher degree in boats with a British ensign, but it is not only a British boat problem.

This issue was brought to the point this afternoon when we were anchored in a beautiful bay in one of the Greek Aegean islands. I have children aboard that were happily swimming around in the beautiful crystal clear Med waters. This is when I noticed that the British yacht anchored very close next to me were pumping out s**t into the bay. This was from a very new boat that clearly would have holding tanks fitted as standard. Naturally, I got a bit agitated and rowed up to him and expressed my severe dissatisfaction with his action. The response I got was this strange 'but there are no pumping out stations in Greece', so pumping out into the bay was OK in his mind.

I asked him what his destination was for the next day and he told me. It would involve some 40 miles offshore passage. I asked him why he did not think that using a holding tank at anchor and pumping out 20 miles offshore was better than pumping out 10 metres from my children. Judging by his reaction, this thought had never occurred to him. He was so caught up in the 'no pump out stations - no holding tank use' concept. Very strange, but a notion I have met before in British sailors. Where does that come from? I have a British yachtmaster ticket myself so I know that this is not something the RYA teaches.

We need to stamp out this strange misconception. Please use your holding tanks when at anchor. Nothing can spoil a beautiful anchorage more than another boat pumping out sewage. Maybe we should produce a leaflet?
 
Couldn't agree more - its the same in the Caribbean. When I mentioned that we always use ours at anchor to a fellow Brit he seemed quite amazed and said he couldn't see the need as it was all biodegradable and soon disappeared!! When I asked how often he swam around his boat he admitted he hadn't thought it through.
I've got a rather revolting picture of the wake of our boat when we opened the tank offshore - won't post it here. Mind you its a good way of assessing leeway!!
 
Our boat, currently under charter management in Greece, has had the holding tank bypassed, so everything goes straight into the sea. When I questioned this, was told that "Greek fish are very small, so need all the s*** they can get, and that charterers almost always manage to screw up the holding tanks".Was not v happy with that reply.
In Turkey, had no probs at all with holding tank, emptied well off shore (in Greek waters?). Not rocket science to use the H/T at anchor, and let it go offshore.
 
[ QUOTE ]
In Turkey, had no probs at all

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously never moored anywhere near a Gulet or tripper boat then...
 
"No probs" with management of holding tank. Never even thought of swimming near gulets or tripper boats.
After charters in Croatia, Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey, olny the Croatian and Turkish 'non-bypassed' H/Ts were any good
 
[ QUOTE ]
Our boat, currently under charter management in Greece, has had the holding tank bypassed, so everything goes straight into the sea.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, that gives us another reason to stay well clear away of any charter boats then. Why not just explain to your charters how a holding tank works? As you say; it is not rocket science. If you cannot even operate a h/t: you should surely not be given the responsibility to try to sail a boat. That sounds like a sure 'fail' type of question to me. Don't charter your boat to that person.
 
Couldn't agree more. We watch people jumping off all sorts of boats and shudder to think which ones don't use or even have HTs. I wonder if too many Brits think 'ah well, there's the tide', when of course there isn't.

Ours is steel (much frowned upon by the Headmistress) but works pretty well. We are experimenting with various different goops to eat up the sewage and minimise odours which is giving another dimension to the whole experiment.
 
Completely agree. Got very used to correct use of holding tank in the US, in fact, we've never pumped anything overboard at all over there, even way offshore. Coming back to the UK and finding it all just goes straight down the chute into the sea seems medieval, like something out of a castle, and leaves us very uncomfortable. Wish the local authorities and marinas would get their acts together in the UK and Europe and provide proper pump out facilities the way the Americans have done - they really are way ahead in this respect.
 
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Maybe we should produce a leaflet?

[/ QUOTE ]
Spain: Seguridad en las activdades nauticas (Safer water sports) - 41 page brochure; is produced by the Ministerio de Fomento. It's in Spanish and English and states all the information needed re discharge.
I've stated the formal/legal requirements in the Med several times on this forum. It's all in here http://www.salvamentomaritimo.es/ and is in English
 
There are leaflets in France too, and I expect something more elsewhere. I suspect that there is an ingrained attitutde however that says that any leaflet put out by officialdom is a dastardly plot and in principle to be ignored unless the Guardia/gendarmerie etc are actually going to be able to enforce it.

Which is a shame. Well done Lady Jessie for not only raising it here but directly challenging the behaviour.
 
Ours is steel (much frowned upon by the Headmistress) but works pretty well. We are experimenting with various different goops to eat up the sewage and minimise odours which is giving another dimension to the whole experiment.

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Have you ensured you have at least a 1" breather and preferably two... The best goop is fresh air which makes the space in the holding tank aerobic.

This is what tek tanks say but it seems to have a definite southern accent to it.....
Headmistress????
 
[ QUOTE ]
Our boat, currently under charter management in Greece, has had the holding tank bypassed, so everything goes straight into the sea. When I questioned this, was told that "Greek fish are very small, so need all the s*** they can get, and that charterers almost always manage to screw up the holding tanks".

[/ QUOTE ] I'm certain that the majority of Greek charters do not bypass holding tanks. I suggest you change your 'charter management'. All Greek registered vessels must have holding tanks, which must be pumped out at sea. Anyone pumping in harbour or at anchor, if detected or 'shopped', will be subject to fines of some hundreds of Euros. Charter managers who use the sort of excuse yours did are lazy in their boat maintenance; they rightly detect that holding tanks raise their workload. It's worth thinking what other short cuts they take.

On the subject of Gulets and excursion boats. These have to fit both 'blackwater' holding tanks and 'grey water' holding tanks (for showers, washing up water etc) in both Greece and Turkey. Far from discharging waste irresponsibly, several years back many skippers of these vessels made a point of reporting harbour or anchorage discharges from private yachts. Many quite heavy fines were imposed, especially in Turkey. The best defence is to show that you have an operating internal waste system.

I don't know whether this reporting is still a common occurence in Turkey (it is less common in Greece than it used to be), but I am still very wary of pumping sinks or showers overboard in Greece.

Of course, it's quite true that one species waste is another species food. But that's not the issue here: the issue is bacterial contamination of water people swim in . . .

Thanks, Ladyjessie, for bringing the subject up - so to speak.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Have you ensured you have at least a 1" breather and preferably two...

[/ QUOTE ] Strongly agree with that, and that was a good link you posted. I'd also mention that the vent/breather should not have a mesh filter . . . which seems to be the standard used by many builders. There are two reasons for that statement:

1. Better air flow

2. If the tank is overfilled . . .

No 2 is another story, about a blocked mesh, a pressurised tank, a report from forward that the heads pump was stiff, followed by a loud bang . . . and a couple of days of very smelly work.
 
Its my experience that day boats and crewed charter boats loaded with tourists in Greece, Turkey and Croatia do not have to fit holding tanks and if they have them don't use them. The result is when they are loaded up and feeding and watering their guests/passenger it all goes overboard. Its not very pleasant. However private owners do get fined in Croatia and Turkey but never heard of any problems in Greece.
 
Thanks for the comments; we di have two vents. One was a bit dusted up and we've made usre now they're boith working well. It's not really pong as, touch wood, we are doing okay with that, but trying to break down the materiel to be both smaller quantities and less invasive when we do empty the tanks.

The Headmistress is Oeggie Hall, Queen of marine sanitation who has written a couple of excellent books (on amazon), but doesn't run a web site. She used to pop upon these boards from time to time, but hasn't been around for a while. Absolute mine of info.
 
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[ QUOTE ]
In Turkey, had no probs at all

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously never moored anywhere near a Gulet or tripper boat then...

[/ QUOTE ]

Did not have any problems myself last week in Turkey, we did however ensure that we were anchored upstream/wind of the Gulets/tripper boats.

Must admit that I think that the ones near us were using holding tanks too as they had many trippers swimming around the boats, I am sure that they would have complained if they had to swim in their own doings.
 
The Headmistress is Oeggie Hall, Queen of marine sanitation who has written a couple of excellent books (on amazon), but doesn't run a web site. She used to pop upon these boards from time to time, but hasn't been around for a while. Absolute mine of info.

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Peggies words of wisdom can be found in many places and I think you will find as I said in another post a definite southern ladies accent in the Tek TAnk notes as linked to in an earlier mail.

The best answer to smelly hol;ding tanks is lots of air however one product that was around and may still be which Peggie begrudgiingly accepted did work was Oderlos from Hydro in Norway.

Odorlos
 
Yep, Odorlos worked for us.

And regular pump-outs /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also, give the tank a good thorough flush with fresh water after you've pumped out if you can, then pump that out a second time to rinse.
 
There are many goops on the market and the best are the bio ones such as were formulated by the Headmistress and originally sold under her own name. The range was then sold to Raritan and I have a feeling that Sealand may have taken them over but could be wrong.

A complete range is of course available from all USA Chandleries .

Peggie admitted that Odorlos was a good alternative to her products and although made by a Norwegian company Norsk Hydro it was originally mainly foung in the USA

Odorlos is sold in the UK at various chanderlies such as Force 4 and also TC Marine

I am sure equivlants are available in the Med however if not whay not introduce your chanderies to Odorlos...You might get some free samples ..

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
LJ - whilst we use a holding tank and completely agree with what you are saying I think you should worry more about the gullets and day tripper boats who systematically pump their holding tanks out whenever they feel like it, and be a bit more careful about to whom you are pointing the blame finger at.

The other week we had guests on board, one of whom was Turkish. At a favoured anchorage a gullet was both seen and heard manually pumping his s**t into the very bay we were swimming in only a few hours before. This was witnessed by about four boats (all British flagged, by the way, and all absolutely disgusted at this behaviour) so we asked our Turkish friend to ask the Turkish skipper what he thought he was doing. His response? Excuse the pun but he didn't give a s**t. He cast his lines from the jetty leaving 10 British liveaboards open-mouthed in shock at his attitude.

Be careful about accusing certain nationalities of this type of behaviour. As you know we know many cruisers in this area, many of whom are English. They would be really upset if they read your indirect accusation.
 
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