Holding tank chemicals

Scala said:
Martyn, don't fret I think thinwater is an American person. They as a race think that killing 10000+ of their own citizens every year with guns that they have the "right to bear" is fine. So a few chemicals that keep your bog clean is obviously to be denigrated mightily. I may have got the essence of this argument wrong.
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That's rather harsh and quite frankly uncalled for. Don't lump every American citizen in with all the nutters!
 
stevie69p said:
That's rather harsh and quite frankly uncalled for. Don't lump every American citizen in with all the nutters!
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Since mindless stereotypes are evidently now acceptable, you might be kinder to poor old Scala. He's an Eastbourne person, and therefore probably quite gaga. I'm sure his carer will ensure he behaves better in future.
 
Thanks all for their helpful comments. It seems to me that most people would not use chemicals and I shall follow that advice.
neil1967 said:
I'm still missing the point of why you need to use the chemicals at all, whether green or not. Neither of the yachts I have owned with holding tanks has been smelly (one was in Turkey where you might expect the heat to have made it pong a bit), so it just seems like spending money to pour something into the sea.........
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Impaler said:
Thanks all for their helpful comments. It seems to me that most people would not use chemicals and I shall follow that advice.
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We have holding tanks and have never used chemicals - one heads has always smelled a bit but the other one not at all. The smell was eventually solved by changing all pipes and powerhosing the inside of the hull around the holding tank a few times. I think the previous owner must have allowed some nasty leaks to happen and left them to dry.

For our use which is mixed marina and mostly harbour wall or anchorage the holding tanks have been great as we sail every few days meaning we can use both heads for both purposes all the time and not bother with shoreside loos. Then once out at sea dump it all (preferably with no boats sailing close behind us) and flush it through thoroughly and leave holding tank open to the sea until we tie up again next. We follow the Greek way of putting all paper etc. Into little lined pedal bins as Ive seen paper attached to rocks when snorkelling and that's vile.
 
RupertW said:
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We follow the Greek way of putting all paper etc. Into little lined pedal bins as Ive seen paper attached to rocks when snorkelling and that's vile.
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It's certainly unsightly, but I'm not sure that "vile" is the right description. The toilet paper is static and relatively clean by the time a few bugs have worked their way across it. My greater concern swimming in places where there is discarded toilet paper visible would be the other material that was flushed with that paper and is now floating around in the water you are swimming in!
 
maby said:
It's certainly unsightly, but I'm not sure that "vile" is the right description. The toilet paper is static and relatively clean by the time a few bugs have worked their way across it. My greater concern swimming in places where there is discarded toilet paper visible would be the other material that was flushed with that paper and is now floating around in the water you are swimming in!
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You'd be surprised how long a brown stain seems to last after the other visible stuff has been eaten or whatever. Paper lasts much longer but you are right of course that it is a reminder of the vile stuff rather than harmful itself. But I still prefer not to see it and not to create the problem if dumping holding tanks just a mile or two off the coast.
 
You are in the UK so spell it correctly. ;). ;). It is available in many chandler's and even the Headmistress has said nice things about it. Google Odourlos .
 
thinwater said:
Just curious. Is there a UK regulation re. dumping in harbor, and how far out is acceptable? In the US there is an invisible line 3 miles out for untreated waste.
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I'm not aware of any formal law for pleasure vessels - commercial ships can be penalised for dumping various types of waste inshore.
 
thinwater said:
Interesting. In the US and Med you can get inspected--I have. In the US the Y-valve for discharge better be locked inshore (big fine).
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Boats round here are not fitted with locks on the outlet valve. I'm certainly not aware of any formal rule for small private boats - larger ships are a different matter. Few marinas have pump-out facilities and many small boats seldom, if ever, go more than three miles from shore - so there is little choice but to dump inshore.
 
thinwater said:
Interesting. In the US and Med you can get inspected--I have. In the US the Y-valve for discharge better be locked inshore (big fine).
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Perhaps in Turkey (I've not been there) but I've never come across any inspection in France, Italy, Croatia or Greece and haven't come across a boat with any kind of lock (and most don't have Y valves either as the most common method is gravity ). So offshore (ish) dumping seems to be the norm.
 
RYA website has some useful info which confirms what maby says.

RYA said:
Regulations and Best Practice
Regulations for the prevention of pollution by sewage are contained in Annex IV of MARPOL. These regulations apply to ships of 400 gross tonnage and above engaged in international voyages or ships which are certified to carry more than 15 persons.


Although no specific provisions are made for smaller pleasure vessels, it is important to consider the impact of discharging raw sewage from a sea toilet or holding tank into the sea. It is best practice to return all waste generated on board to shore waste reception facilities where possible.


If a holding tank is fitted it should be used and only emptied at either a pump out station or when more than 3 miles offshore. This is because in the open sea waste will be quickly diluted and dispersed by wave action and currents. On vessels without a holding tank avoid the use of toilets in poor tidal flushing areas (e.g. estuaries, inland waterways, inlets and crowded anchorages) and use marina or shore facilities where possible
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Link: http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/environmental-advice/Pages/waste-management.aspx
 
maby said:
Boats round here are not fitted with locks on the outlet valve. I'm certainly not aware of any formal rule for small private boats - larger ships are a different matter. Few marinas have pump-out facilities and many small boats seldom, if ever, go more than three miles from shore - so there is little choice but to dump inshore.
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The most common solution is to drill a small hole in the valve handle and use a non-releasable (must cut) cable tie. This is legally acceptable.

In the post, above, I can see that the MARPOL advise is to go 3-miles out, but that it is not regulation. No doubt this results in a different view of chemicals, since many hold the waste for weeks or months, in the heat of the summer. In those conditions, everybody's s__t stinks.

Not knowing, perhaps part of the difference is that the US has far more swimming beaches with warm water, though the presence of sewage in shell fish harvest areas is also a concern (they are closed if counts pass a certain level). Most pathenogens are quickly killed by saltwater, but vibro (cholera) is resistant and results in occasional outbreaks. Again, warm water contributes.

It does seem odd, though, given that the 1854 London Cholera outbreak changed the way the world looked at sanitation.

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Map-Londons-Terrifying-Epidemic/dp/1594482691
 
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maby said:
Boats round here are not fitted with locks on the outlet valve. I'm certainly not aware of any formal rule for small private boats - larger ships are a different matter. Few marinas have pump-out facilities and many small boats seldom, if ever, go more than three miles from shore - so there is little choice but to dump inshore.
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Cornish Crabbers built my boat and it’s not possible to dump directly to sea, it all has to go into the tank. I did ask about this and it seems that it’s an EU RCD directive for all new boats.
 
Impaler said:
Cornish Crabbers built my boat and it’s not possible to dump directly to sea, it all has to go into the tank. I did ask about this and it seems that it’s an EU RCD directive for all new boats.
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True - but don't misunderstand me - there are RCD rules about the layout of the heads plumbing, but no formal rules about when and where we can discharge sewage into the sea. It may be irresponsible to leave the dump valve open in harbour, but it's not illegal
 
I’m not sure if my system would free flow to the sea. The tank seems to be at about sea level or above and the pump is Jabsco diaphragm pump and I’m sure that’s above sea level. No matter, I’d leave the valve shut as per instructions and only discharge offshore.w
 
Impaler said:
I’m not sure if my system would free flow to the sea. The tank seems to be at about sea level or above and the pump is Jabsco diaphragm pump and I’m sure that’s above sea level. No matter, I’d leave the valve shut as per instructions and only discharge offshore.w
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I'm sure it would - the tank normally has an outlet feeding to a dump valve on the hull below the waterline and the pump routes all sewage to the tank. If the dump valve is open, then the sewage passes straight through the tank and out.
 
maby said:
I'm sure it would - the tank normally has an outlet feeding to a dump valve on the hull below the waterline and the pump routes all sewage to the tank. If the dump valve is open, then the sewage passes straight through the tank and out.
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One pragmatic way if you are in a marina for a while is to leave the valve open but go to the marina loos for solids (and obviously not flush any paper down). I have seen people swim in marinas but I always think they are braver than me.
 
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