Hoisting furling genoa problem

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Severnman

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Advice sought please. Roller genoa sail was removed end of last season for minor repairs and new UV strip. Today was unable to hoist the sail more than half way up the stay despite halyard being very tight on cockpit roof mounted winch and second person feeding luff up the groove. Top slider is running free (and tested all the way to masthead with a downhaulline attached) The halyard is not fouled at the mast head and has a diverter too. The luff groove seems straight and true with no obvious signs of distortion. Furling gear is Colnebrook - boat is a Foxhound 24. Even tried putting washing up liquid on the luff but to no avail. Really scratching head here so if anybody else has had similar experiences....many thanks.
 
I use a ptfe spray on mine and it works wonders. Not sure if the washing up liquid will work very well on the sail cloth?

Has something clouted the luff groove and damaged it low down? Does the sail come down easily? (If it does, then perhaps it indicates a halyard problem you haven't spotted?)
 
Could be minor damage to the luff groove, perhaps at a joint? This happened to a friend a couple of years ago. Fairly easily fixed as I recall.
 
If you have had a new UV strip fitted is it running in the luff groove and made of thicker material than your last one and so the friction is building as more of it is fed into the groove until it gets to an unreasonable level. Do you have another jib you can try to check everything else is ok?
 
Check your top pulley sheave - I had this problem a few years back and had the mast down in the winter and the top sheave was seized solid. When freed off it pulled up very easily!
 
Mine was the same, no work had been done to it but loads of friction, enough to partially split a foil joint above head height....

Small steps, lots of wash up liquid (all there was to hand)- up/down/up/down and it eventually went up.

Funnily enough, I've not taken it down since for some reason.....

Nick
 
neilf39 said:
If you have had a new UV strip fitted is it running in the luff groove and made of thicker material than your last one and so the friction is building as more of it is fed into the groove until it gets to an unreasonable level. Do you have another jib you can try to check everything else is ok?
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The UV strip is not on the luff except for little bits at the top and bottom
 
Severnman said:
Advice sought please. Roller genoa sail was removed end of last season for minor repairs and new UV strip. Today was unable to hoist the sail more than half way up the stay despite halyard being very tight on cockpit roof mounted winch and second person feeding luff up the groove. Top slider is running free (and tested all the way to masthead with a downhaulline attached) The halyard is not fouled at the mast head and has a diverter too. The luff groove seems straight and true with no obvious signs of distortion. Furling gear is Colnebrook - boat is a Foxhound 24. Even tried putting washing up liquid on the luff but to no avail. Really scratching head here so if anybody else has had similar experiences....many thanks.
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Something is seriously wrong.
i hoisted my 50` luff sail on my own on Saturday just hauled the halliard @ the mast no winch needed. I too had a new sacrificial strip fitted ( by Crusader ). I use a hood pre-feeder on the luff tape.
I did use silicone spray on the luff groves / foil to allow the top swivel to slide easier
 
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I had a problem once many boats back with a Rotastay furler and eventually traced it to a cracked foil quite high up ( above head height and so not seen easily and on which the slider jammed. Mine wasn't the only one like it in our club and it was caused by traped water in the foil freezing in the hard winter of that year, expanding and bursting the foil like a water pipe. Until then Iwasn't even aware there was a drain hole in the foil bottom to let water out never mind that it should be routinely checked and poked clean. Am I right in thinking you lot in the UK have just had a very severe winter?? One club boat that winter had a worse experience in that the base of his deck stepped aluminium mast had cracked/split for the same reason, frozen trapped water. In my case I bought a full replacement roller reefing system as the foil itself was so welded to the bottom drum with corrosion it would not come apart, expensive but the new one was improved design too. so some silver lining to the cloud and certainly cheaper than the other guy's new mast.
 
Severnman said:
Advice sought please. Roller genoa sail was removed end of last season for minor repairs and new UV strip. Today was unable to hoist the sail more than half way up the stay despite halyard being very tight on cockpit roof mounted winch and second person feeding luff up the groove. Top slider is running free (and tested all the way to masthead with a downhaulline attached) The halyard is not fouled at the mast head and has a diverter too. The luff groove seems straight and true with no obvious signs of distortion. Furling gear is Colnebrook - boat is a Foxhound 24. Even tried putting washing up liquid on the luff but to no avail. Really scratching head here so if anybody else has had similar experiences....many thanks.
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I had a problem once many boats back with a Rotastay furler and eventually traced it to a cracked foil (actually two paralell cracks/splits quite high up ( above head height and so not seen easily and on which the sail slider jammed. Mine wasn't the only one like it in our club and it was caused by trapped water in the foil freezing in the hard winter of that year, expanding and bursting the foil like it would a water pipe. Until then Iwasn't even aware there was a drain hole in the foil bottom to let water out never mind that it should be routinely checked and poked clean. Am I right in thinking you lot in the UK have just had a very severe winter?? One club boat that winter had a worse experience in that the base of his deck stepped aluminium mast had cracked/split for the same reason, frozen trapped water. In my case I bought a full replacement roller reefing system as the foil itself was so welded to the bottom drum with corrosion it would not come apart, expensive but the new one was improved design too. so some silver lining to the cloud and certainly cheaper than the other guy's new mast.

Anotherfriend once had a similar problem when two sections of foil had got out of alignment and twisted slightly one to the other when a clamp screw on the join had gone walkabout. Short term he realigned them from a bosuns chair whilst the sail was being hoisted, longer term it took IIRC a new bit of foil and lowering the entire furling system to the deck to install it.
 
Severnman said:
Advice sought please. Roller genoa sail was removed end of last season for minor repairs and new UV strip. Today was unable to hoist the sail more than half way up the stay despite halyard being very tight on cockpit roof mounted winch and second person feeding luff up the groove. Top slider is running free (and tested all the way to masthead with a downhaulline attached) The halyard is not fouled at the mast head and has a diverter too. The luff groove seems straight and true with no obvious signs of distortion. Furling gear is Colnebrook - boat is a Foxhound 24. Even tried putting washing up liquid on the luff but to no avail. Really scratching head here so if anybody else has had similar experiences....many thanks.
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In my experience it's a pretty common problem on cruising boats, mine included. Usually, the easiest solution, as john_morris_uk says, is to lubricate the luff grove, which is what a typical racer would do on a frequent basis. MacLube is the well-known brand, but not cheap for what it is.
 
Many thanks for replies thus far. I do feel instinctively it is a friction issue and guess the pfte lube spray should be my first port of call. Think the masthead sheave is running ok and as stated a careful eye up the foil groove 'seems' all ok. Ipdns - you're right doesn't look cheap at least from the swindleries!
 
I had a similar problem with mine. Almost impossible to hoist but would fall down on its own. Tried all sorts of lubrication to no avail. I changed the top swivel bearings but wasn't convinced this was the problem. However with the top swivel removed I noticed that the piece of flat metal plate connected to the top swivel (that the halyard is shackled to) was slightly bent away from the foil. This was causing the top swivel to be pulled out of line with the foil and the higher up it went the worse it got. I straightened the metal and it went up a treat. The only reason I can think that the bend was made was a worn wrapstop fitting on the top of the forestay (Profurl system) .Possibly too much tension on the halyard. I am convinced that too much tension on the halyard was partly responsible for the bottom swivels giving up the ghost. Now I slacken the halyard when leaving the boat and try not to overtighten when in use.
 
Severnman said:
Many thanks for replies thus far. I do feel instinctively it is a friction issue and guess the pfte lube spray should be my first port of call. Think the masthead sheave is running ok and as stated a careful eye up the foil groove 'seems' all ok. Ipdns - you're right doesn't look cheap at least from the swindleries!
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silicone or furniture spray polish :encouragement:
 
I had a problem on the Copland Harrier the first time I rigged it. It turned out to be a misaligned joint in the foils near the top.

My problem was that in winching the sail up past the stiff bit I damaged the head of the sail. I only found out 2 days later when the loop at the head of the sail failed 2 days later. Anyway, after getting the sail repaired and dropping the mast to retrieve the halyard it was all good.

I will never ever use a winch to hoist a sail on the size of boat I can afford to run.

Another thing is to make sure that the leading edge of the bead on the sail is tidy, they do get a bit raggy when mature.
 
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I helped put up a big genoa the other day. We were able to haul the top swivel up and down with no trouble but when we attached the sail it went two thirds up the foil and then jammed hard. At the point where it jammed the section of the top swivel that takes the halyard twisted to one side. We solved the problem by passing a light line through the halyard shackle and back down to deck level. One of us hauled the halyard and the other used the light line to hold the swivel in proper alignment. It worked but it was still hard work pulling it up the last few feet. But what caused the upper part of the upper swivel to turn away like that?
 
MARNEN said:
I had a similar problem with mine. ... with the top swivel removed I noticed that the piece of flat metal plate connected to the top swivel (that the halyard is shackled to) was slightly bent away from the foil. This was causing the top swivel to be pulled out of line with the foil and the higher up it went the worse it got. I straightened the metal and it went up a treat.
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Similarly, if there is a 'bent' shackle on the swivel ensure it is the right way round. If it is the wrong way round it tends to 'tilt' the swivel and induces more and more friction as the sail goes up.
 
Does it gradually get tighter the more you haul up or does it get to a point then stick. Mine gets about 2/3 way up then sticks. a bit of extra pull on the winch gets it past that point. I'm pretty sure it's a joint in the foil that obstructs the wire luff somehow.
 
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