Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

[RichardS]

Would you like to quantify that statement.

Brian

I could give you some specifications if that helps:

Single piston drum brakes on a 2 tonne vehicle. Servo is an optional extra.

Steering so heavy that a typical woman would barely be able to turn the wheel. Also wanders hopelessly at A road speeds.

Pathetic low output headlights, necessitated by 35A alternator.

Tubed crossply tyres with no sidewall flex and rock hard tread which are more just as likely to slip sideways in the wet as actually go around the corner. At least they last for 50k miles. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[Tomahawk]

....
I'd hope that a coach of similar vintage would be prohibited from plying for trade, for much the same reasons as the boat under discussion.

There is a slight difference between a coach on todays overloaded roads with vehicles able to drive at over 100mph and a river with boats moving at a sedate 10mph.

The reality of the Herald and other ferries that have sunk is that people get trapped innside and have no way of getting out..

 

[Blue Sunray]

There is a slight difference between a coach on todays overloaded roads with vehicles able to drive at over 100mph and a river with boats moving at a sedate 10mph.

The reality of the Herald and other ferries that have sunk is that people get trapped innside and have no way of getting out..

Yes indeed, the prospect of drowning on a motorway is significantly lower, well spotted, go to the top of the class.

 

[Concerto]

I believe that Abel's were supposed to re-use the keel but decided not to off their own bat and without realising the consequences.

That I believe is correct. It was done for the structural integrity of the hull, which was very important.

 

[halcyon]

I could give you some specifications if that helps:

Single piston drum brakes on a 2 tonne vehicle. Servo is an optional extra.

Steering so heavy that a typical woman would barely be able to turn the wheel. Also wanders hopelessly at A road speeds.

Pathetic low output headlights, necessitated by 35A alternator.

Tubed crossply tyres with no sidewall flex and rock hard tread which are more just as likely to slip sideways in the wet as actually go around the corner. At least they last for 50k miles. :ambivalence:

Richard

In my days designing trailer undergear, RD had a long wheelbase Landie for testing at MIRA proving ground, we had to achieve 60%g stop with overrun rakes and 3,000 kg of horsebox behind, Okay some fade tests today could be difficult for the beast, but it could stop, maybe not the same driving experience.

Steering, we never had power steering as standard till the 80's, just lazy to-day. But with the horsebox it did fine round the ride and handling circuit, what they were built for. Now if you want to try the handling, steering and crossply tyres, stick 1500 kg of compressor on the back and go round MIRA cross country track, 2 or 3 mile long.

Back in the 60's people would have killed for a 35 amp alternator, it was dynamoes then, there was still Ford Pop's on the road with 6 volt electrics. We all had pathetic low output bulbs, some worse than others, but I still drove overnight from Walsall to Cornwall, with virtually no Motorway.

Just changing times, plus the Landie was built as a workhorse, not for comfort.


Brian

 

[[70521]]

As a fee paying passenger I actually want to travel on a vessel/aircraft/bus/ motor car with all the latest safety specified kit! Remember the shocking facial injuries before the sorted windscreens?

Looking at the Golden Globe Race does that not illustrate very effectively the risks involved in using old technology in, I admit, an extreme way.

 

[Tomahawk]

The accident record of the Medway Queen and the 100 year old Thames pleasure boat featured on the BBC news yesterday evening are pretty good.

Indeed I am always more worried on a ferry than on riverboat. Take a look at the dining rooms on a modern ferry and imagine that space at 30degrees with all the loose tables and furniture. Then think of it as a vertical space with everyone in the space standing on one wall.. they would be five deep!

 

[oldgit]

Oh, won't it be great when we are out of the EU and back to traditional light-touch UK regulation?

You mean back to polluting beaches with sewage and stuff like that.

 

[RichardS]

In my days designing trailer undergear, RD had a long wheelbase Landie for testing at MIRA proving ground, we had to achieve 60%g stop with overrun rakes and 3,000 kg of horsebox behind, Okay some fade tests today could be difficult for the beast, but it could stop, maybe not the same driving experience.

Steering, we never had power steering as standard till the 80's, just lazy to-day. But with the horsebox it did fine round the ride and handling circuit, what they were built for. Now if you want to try the handling, steering and crossply tyres, stick 1500 kg of compressor on the back and go round MIRA cross country track, 2 or 3 mile long.

Back in the 60's people would have killed for a 35 amp alternator, it was dynamoes then, there was still Ford Pop's on the road with 6 volt electrics. We all had pathetic low output bulbs, some worse than others, but I still drove overnight from Walsall to Cornwall, with virtually no Motorway.

Just changing times, plus the Landie was built as a workhorse, not for comfort.

Brian

I agree with you. Our memories play tricks on us though and we get used to what we have now. I'm guessing that it's a few years since you drove the Landy and that since then you've driven modern cars. Get back in an old Landy now on today's busy roads and you wonder whether it's your body strength which has deserted you. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[Balbas]

I agree with you. Our memories play tricks on us though and we get used to what we have now. I'm guessing that it's a few years since you drove the Landy and that since then you've driven modern cars. Get back in an old Landy now on today's busy roads and you wonder whether it's your body strength which has deserted you. :ambivalence:

Richard

Point of order, I drive Landies all the time. My 'daily' is a 20 year old (modern!) landrover, but I also drive Wolfs, 'Fenders and Series on a regular basis. I used to have a S2a. Driven within their limits they're fine. It's when the *driver* forgets that they aren't a modern car that the issues arise. Also, your point about 'series' brakes - I have 3 comments:-

1) Mine were always top notch and it would stop surprisingly quickly once (did need a good shove tho' - see point 3). After the first stop it needed a few minutes to cool the brakes, a second sharp stop shortly after the first would start to see signs of fade.
2) Braking technique is important - good braking is turd shaped, that is tapered at both ends. Slam on the brakes and you'll lock up (or trigger the ABS in a modern vehicle), and don't moderate the pressure as speed drops and the same will happen.
3) Most people don't press the pedal hard enough - something recognised by (I think it was mercedes first) the industry and why modern cars are fitted with 'brake assist' which automatically applies the brakes if the system detects an emergency braking scenario (dunno about the latest systems, but the first used the rate of application of the brakes as the trigger I believe).

Yes they lack secondary safety features and some of their primary safety features aren't brilliant - but kept within their limits there really aren't any problems with them.

It's also possible to get into a whole argument about risk homeostasis and the dangers of making modern cars more safe, which would be terribly dull.

Anyway, back to boats...

 

[Tomahawk]

Back to boats

good idea

 

[JumbleDuck]

Quite, any three wheeler with a single wheel at the front is (was) inherently unstable.

Why would you think that to be the case? I had a Reliant Rialto for a couple of years. It was immense fun, mainly because of having 40hp for three fifths of stuff all weight. Sure, you had to be a little careful not to brake and steer sharply at the same time, as it didn't like throwing weight on a wheel which wasn't there, but just about any car can be rolled if you try and that doesn't make them "inherently unstable".

Two-at-the-front-one-at-the-back is a better layout, but the opposite works fine. See "all commercial aircraft" for other examples.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'd hope that a coach of similar vintage would be prohibited from plying for trade, for much the same reasons as the boat under discussion.

The most frightening road journey I ever made was from Edinburgh City Centre to the airport in an ex-London Routemaster which was for a while operated by a rival to Lothian Buses. At any speed over about 25pm the whole thing shuddered violently and swerved constantly to the edges of its lane and occasionally beyond. Steering geometry? What steering geometry? Unfortunately I was running late for a flight so had no time to do what I should have and report it to the cops.

However, that was bad maintenance rather than intrinsic design shortcomings.

 

[JumbleDuck]

3) Most people don't press the pedal hard enough - something recognised by (I think it was mercedes first) the industry and why modern cars are fitted with 'brake assist' which automatically applies the brakes if the system detects an emergency braking scenario (dunno about the latest systems, but the first used the rate of application of the brakes as the trigger I believe).

I think Citroën got there first with the ID, which was the cheaper version of the DS, with hydraulic suspension but everything else conventional, including the brakes. If you braked really heavily in them, a valve opened and fed suspension fluid at full pressure to the brake system, giving a very powerful emergency brake assist. Unfortunately it was used so seldom that the transfer valve tended to corrode and then jam open when it operated. As a result the full contents of the suspension system - about a gallon - would be transferred into the brake system, blowing the top off the brake reservoir and producing a mist of fluid which completely enveloped the car. Since the fluid was mostly glycol (with a bit of castor oil) this rather effectively stripped the paint from the entire car.

After a few years the emergency assist system was discontinued.

 

[Tomahawk]

I tought we were talking about floaty things

 

[vyv_cox]

No you couldn't. It doesn't need an MoT, but to drive it on the road in an unroadworthy condition is still an offence.

Yes I know that but seized brake cylinders and leaking drive shaft gaiters don't show up on CCTV.

 

[Robert Wilson]

I tought we were talking about floaty things

'twould be appreciated, but as an occasional culprit of fred-drifting myself, I ought to tolerate a few "landy" drifts

 

[JumbleDuck]

I tought we were talking about floaty things

I thought we were talking about how long designs for public transports systems might reasonably be allowed to remain in service.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I thought we were talking about how long designs for public transports systems might reasonably be allowed to remain in service.

:encouragement: Hopefully someone will move the thread to the lounge.

 

[RichardS]

:encouragement: Hopefully someone will move the thread to the lounge.

Hitler couldn't "sink" this thread, but Elecglitch will.

Richard