Hinckley boats: why isn't anything this lovely built in Europe?

dancrane said:
...so I found the Hinckleys by mistake - because as well as being visually fabulous to my eyes, they're all available with lifting keels. The 51-footer tops my lottery-list.
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Thats a much more difficult to understand issue - where are the modern european ''take to the ground'' yachts? Even here in the south west maybe half the nice harbours are drying and a fin is a liability. So why no modern well built bilge keelers? The benny etc drop keels are no good for routine drying out as even benny will tell you and in any case they arent at the quality end of the market.

I was having this conversation with one of the owners of Rustler yesterday, trying to convince him to do a stephen jones designed bilge version of their new 37 but failing totally. He wasnt convinced there was a market yet is happy to make all of two, yes only two, Rustler 36 per year. I'm convinced there would be a market both here on the east and west coasts and maybe in N France. What say you?
 
I like big bilge-keelers, and I'm sorry there aren't more of them, but I'm not surprised, especially at Rustler's end of the market.

The ability to stand upright without parking your hull on whatever is hidden in the mud at low water in places like Chichester, seems to be possible only for smaller yachts - strangely invidious considering how almost every other convenience is available to those paying for a large yacht...

...but if I was listing my priorities on a pricey, purpose-built ocean-crossing design, would I really include performance-diminishing keels for the occasions when I might visit my old playgrounds of humbler dinghy-days? I doubt it. Especially because in that price bracket, I could cover a deep-water mooring close by, anyway.

But for general cruising flexibilty, I'd think the freedom to cross sand-bars which endanger deep keels, or even to anchor close-in in a scenic spot, would easily be appealing enough for more designers to try to attract custom with centreboards. Shallow draft certainly helps account for my enduring interest in big ugly catamarans.

Was the question of the biggest full-production bilge-keeler ever asked, here? Westerly put twins on the Vulcan (34') and Riviera (35')...anything bigger than that?
 
dancrane said:
...but why are Spirit so proud of the yacht's displacement being under fifty tonnes? It must be due in part to the fact she's six times longer than she is wide.
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Because 50 tonnes is incredibly light for a boat that size. The weight of a boat generally goes up exponentially when compared to the size, think that a AWB 30 footer will probably weigh five tonnes or less, but a 60 footer will probably weigh 25 tonnes or more.

armchairsailor said:
Because that's the weight of a J-class, which would be the main competition?
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The J class boats are much heavier, I doubt any of them weigh in at less that 150 tonnes. The smallest, shamrock v weighs about 160 if I recall.
 
Woodlouse said:
Because 50 tonnes is incredibly light for a boat that size...
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Hmm...I'm afraid I'm hidebound by an instinct that singleminded weight-shedding isn't great for a yacht's solidity. Granted the Spirit 100 is remarkable for her light displacement, and I bet she's a fabulous flyer, but I'd fear for her encountering any remotely solid object at sea, especially at the pace she can doubtless reach...

...but isn't leanness a core factor? Like the super-light McGregor 65...effectively they say "look how much less she weighs!", but it's partly because she's less yacht.

...and even if I could afford a big 'un needing 24/7 protection and pampering, I'm not sure ownership would be as relaxing/satisfying as having a sturdier, beamier boat.
 
Well clearly spirit do not design their boats for you. There are plenty of people out there who consider asthetics to be more important than comfort in a boat.

You are right though in that by reducing the weight of a boat you do have to compromise in the structure and if what I've heard is true, the spirit 100 did turn out to be rather more flexible than intended.
 
Woodlouse said:
...if what I've heard is true, the spirit 100 did turn out to be rather more flexible than intended.
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I apologise, Woodlouse, I'm being insufferably downbeat about a great-looking, award-winning range of yachts, which are British, lord bless 'em.

And I put aesthetics very high...it's only that extreme slenderness doesn't appeal to me aesthetically, as much as slightly roomier designs like Hinckley's 51...

View attachment 33786

Sorry to hear that the big Spirit had a bit more wobble than planned. Have they actually constructed the even more vast Spirit 130', yet? It might be a veritable jelly. :rolleyes:
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Thats a much more difficult to understand issue - where are the modern european ''take to the ground'' yachts? Even here in the south west maybe half the nice harbours are drying and a fin is a liability. So why no modern well built bilge keelers? The benny etc drop keels are no good for routine drying out as even benny will tell you and in any case they arent at the quality end of the market.

I was having this conversation with one of the owners of Rustler yesterday, trying to convince him to do a stephen jones designed bilge version of their new 37 but failing totally. He wasnt convinced there was a market yet is happy to make all of two, yes only two, Rustler 36 per year. I'm convinced there would be a market both here on the east and west coasts and maybe in N France. What say you?
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There have been many attempts to build and market larger twin keel boats. The reality is, however, people who might see the value don't have the money to buy new boats. New boat buyers have half an eye on resale value and are reluctant to buy anything out of the ordinary so adapt their sailing to fit within the capability of the boat rather than the other way round. Hunter/Legend set up a factory here to build just that type of boat - sort of spiritual successor to Westerlys etc of a decade earlier. Competitively priced and comparable in quality and fitout to other AWBs - but failed to make any impression on the market, so Hunter closed up shop.

Unlike 40 years ago the new boat volume market is not UK centric and the big demand in growing markets is in places where shallow draft is of no interest and the niche is too small to be worth exploiting. The French lift keel boats do seem to hang on in, but again their value is declining as the number of deep water marinas increases. However, as you say they are not really suitable for a drying mooring in the same way a twin keel boat is. The RM range sort of meets your ideas, but it is not shallow draft and very expensive.
 
There were a few Spirits at Antigua Classics a couple of years ago, including the 100' Gaia :


Gaia4.jpg



Gaia3.jpg



Gaia2.jpg



And the smaller Spirited Lady :

SpiritedLady2.jpg



How about the American W class yacht 'White Wings'?
http://www.w-class.com/spirit_of_tradition_yachts/f/w_class_yachts_home.html
They were expected to be very popular, but I think only two have been built so far.

WhiteWings2.jpg
 
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Jeepers. This must be why bilge-keelers aren't available on large yachts...if you can afford to sail away, who'd want to be in British mud rather than the Caribbean?
 
dancrane said:
Jeepers. This must be why bilge-keelers aren't available on large yachts...if you can afford to sail away, who'd want to be in British mud rather than the Caribbean?
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But when you get into the Pacific draught becomes a potential problem if you want to explore the coral fringed islands - or even in the Atlantic if you fancy the Bahamas.

BTW the Hinckley centreboard option is a hangover from pre war east coast US days when shallow draft was popular Read Little Ships and Shoal Waters by Maurice Griffiths to get a flavour. Also opens up possibilities of using the Intracoastal to go south to spend the winter in Florida or the Bahamas. Such choices for some.
 
Tranona said:
But when you get into the Pacific draught becomes a potential problem if you want to explore the coral fringed islands - or even in the Atlantic if you fancy the Bahamas.

BTW the Hinckley centreboard option is a hangover from pre war east coast US days when shallow draft was popular Read Little Ships and Shoal Waters by Maurice Griffiths to get a flavour. Also opens up possibilities of using the Intracoastal to go south to spend the winter in Florida or the Bahamas. Such choices for some.
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Wasn't another alleged benefit of retractable keels better downwind performance when offshore? I think that is correct and the reduction in wetted surface would certainly help.
 
Delfin said:
Wasn't another alleged benefit of retractable keels better downwind performance when offshore? I think that is correct and the reduction in wetted surface would certainly help.
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Yes, that's the idea, but not so sure it is so relevant now with the latest skinny keels with T bulbs at the bottom and flat aft sections with chines to aid surfing!
 
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