High tech scrap yard

dgadee

dgadee

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Was clearing out ss and bronze to the big scrapyard in Belfast. There was discussion about what was on the scales. Employee went and got a handheld x-ray (I think) device and pointed it at the stuff I thought was bronze and he thought was brass. Display showed composition of the metal in great detail. It was brass.

Very impressive and wouldn't have believed a device like that was possible.
 
dgadee said:
Was clearing out ss and bronze to the big scrapyard in Belfast. There was discussion about what was on the scales. Employee went and got a handheld x-ray (I think) device and pointed it at the stuff I thought was bronze and he thought was brass. Display showed composition of the metal in great detail. It was brass.

Very impressive and wouldn't have believed a device like that was possible.
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I have often wondered how to be sure which was which. I suppose that x-ray device is very expensive.
 
Electron probe is the proper way to get an analysis ... the electron beam excites characteristic x-ray frequencies of the various elements present and displays them. Seems too classy for a scrap merchant though and requires the sample to be held in a good vacuum.
 
dgadee said:
I think it was the Niton™ XL2 Plus Handheld XRF Analyzer. Wonder how much.
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I suspect that an x-ray source powerful enough to get results across an air gap might well not be available to the general public. Too many chances for things to go seriously pear shaped if mishandled. Look at the way dentists and their nurses scarper while irradiating your jaw! And that's probably a similar intensity, or even less as it's using transmission rather than backscattered energy.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
I suspect that an x-ray source powerful enough to get results across an air gap might well not be available to the general public. Too many chances for things to go seriously pear shaped if mishandled. Look at the way dentists and their nurses scarper while irradiating your jaw! And that's probably a similar intensity, or even less as it's using transmission rather than backscattered energy.
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Yes, I was told to stand well back. The boy using it didn't seem too bothered, though.
 
XRF is x-ray fluorescence.

The unit is supposed to be held in contact with a flat surface so that it is self-shielding. Not really safely suitable for small parts, but....

The better units use helium purge gas to reduce the air gap problem.
 
In Australia we use sniffer dogs, though not much use distinguishing between brass and bronze :)

Other than dogs mobile analytic equipment is common place, we need to keep up. A number of different technologies available. What used to fill a room, I recall when XRF and XTD were the size of a car, now in a small box and different technologies have been introduced..

KT-100S Handheld LIBS Metal Analyzer

and

specific to the OP

Scrap Metal Sorting

I have a coating thickness meter, a bit bigger than a cigarette pack with a small probe about the size of a short pencil (galvanising). Loadcells upto 0.5t also the size of a cigarette packs, (tension in rode). Hardness meters (which I think could be correlated with tensile strength) US$300 - same cigarette sized (steel quality). Digital microscopes (about the size of an old fashioned fat cigar), displayed on your computer (though sample prep that I know of - done the old fashioned way (expensive).

As I say - we need to keep up.

Jonathan
 
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reeac said:
Electron probe is the proper way to get an analysis ... the electron beam excites characteristic x-ray frequencies of the various elements present and displays them. Seems too classy for a scrap merchant though and requires the sample to be held in a good vacuum.
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Typical snobbery, scrap dealers are far wealthier than most forumites. Most of them will have an XRF gun these days, they cost around £20k.
 
savageseadog said:
No name Chinese? The scrap dealers I know wouldn't be seen dead with cheap tat.
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Please join the real world (and maybe be more careful of where you apply the word 'tat').

Your Apple computer comes from China, most cameras come from China, guess which electronic company scares the pants of the Governments of Oz, UK and US - just because YOU don't now the name does not mean they don't know what they are doing.

Jonathan
 
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