High cut jib

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BurnitBlue

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On my new (to me) boat.

I have a high cut roller jib/genoa. I replaced it with a normal but older deck sweeping roller genoa from the sail locker.

I did this because I could not sheet it in. I could not find a place for the sheet block that was far enough aft to bisect the foot/luff angle which I always thought was mandatory on all headsails.

The foot of the sail is "loose" and has "belly" while the luff is tight. This taking the sheet block to the aft mooring cleat.

During this winter I have noticed photographs of a number of yachts with high cut jib/genoas, and their sheet lead is no better than mine.

Have I got it wrong I wonder? Is this normal? I always thought that jib/genoas like mine belonged on the end of a long bowsprit.

I would like to put this "flying jib" back on the roller because it is almost new, but I am concerned about windward performance.

Thanks
 
BlueTwo said:
On my new (to me) boat.

I have a high cut roller jib/genoa. I replaced it with a normal but older deck sweeping roller genoa from the sail locker.

I did this because I could not sheet it in. I could not find a place for the sheet block that was far enough aft to bisect the foot/luff angle which I always thought was mandatory on all headsails.

The foot of the sail is "loose" and has "belly" while the luff is tight. This taking the sheet block to the aft mooring cleat.

During this winter I have noticed photographs of a number of yachts with high cut jib/genoas, and their sheet lead is no better than mine.

Have I got it wrong I wonder? Is this normal? I always thought that jib/genoas like mine belonged on the end of a long bowsprit.

I would like to put this "flying jib" back on the roller because it is almost new, but I am concerned about windward performance.

Thanks
Click to expand...

can you get the tack lower
 
sailorman said:
can you get the tack lower
Click to expand...

The tack is as low as I can make it. Tied to the drum with cord to avoid the length of a shackle.

The boat (Moody 346) is based in Greece so headwinds are a concern. I have never used the high cut. Replaced it the same day I launched the boat. It definitely not designed for my boat. Probably a flea market purchase by previous owner.

The High cut would be OK for downwind sailing, but as I say the boat is in the Mediterranean.
 
BlueTwo,

could you fit turning blocks by lanyards ( line or wire ) on the aft fairleads / cleats, as done by some IOR boats for spinnakers ?

If you can get it to set properly, a high clew rather than deck sweeper sounds the way to go, re worry of seas breaking into it, possibly better slot effect and avoiding fouling other deck fittings, + visibility for look-out.
 
Seajet said:
BlueTwo,

could you fit turning blocks by lanyards ( line or wire ) on the aft fairleads / cleats, as done by some IOR boats for spinnakers ?

If you can get it to set properly, a high clew rather than deck sweeper sounds the way to go, re worry of seas breaking into it, possibly better slot effect and avoiding fouling other deck fittings, + visibility for look-out.
Click to expand...

I played with the sail for a few hours the day the boat was launched. I did lash a block to the aft mooring cleat but the foot was still "baggy".

As a final experiment, before I swapped to the old deck sweeping Genoa I hand held the sheet while standing on the aft deck. I needed to raise my hand to shoulder height before the foot started to follow the mainsail curve.

To translate that to boat hardware, I would need a turning block on one of those bridge gantry things.

I had decided to consign the sail for Trade Wind use only. Then I saw (last night actually) a foto on www, richAndrews blog (of this forum) where his "Yankee" had worse sheet lead than mine. So thought maybe I was wrong and submitted a question here.

Dont know his forum name but Guitarrich comes to mind.
 
BlueTwo said:
I played with the sail for a few hours the day the boat was launched. I did lash a block to the aft mooring cleat but the foot was still "baggy".

As a final experiment, before I swapped to the old deck sweeping Genoa I hand held the sheet while standing on the aft deck. I needed to raise my hand to shoulder height before the foot started to follow the mainsail curve.

To translate that to boat hardware, I would need a turning block on one of those bridge gantry things.

I had decided to consign the sail for Trade Wind use only. Then I saw (last night actually) a foto on www, richAndrews blog (of this forum) where his "Yankee" had worse sheet lead than mine. So thought maybe I was wrong and submitted a question here.

Dont know his forum name but Guitarrich comes to mind.
Click to expand...

Try a barbour hauler
 
They used to be known as 'working' jibs. I use mine a lot. I find windward ability very similar to the genoa, despite the smaller area of cloth. Off wind not so good as you would expect. The big advantage for me is the all-round visibility that makes sailing in congested places so much less stressful. On my boat, the sheet cars need to be about 6 inches forward from the genoa positions. Before experimenting too much with new sheet blocks, it might be a good idea to fit some tell-tales to the luff of your sail.

Neil
 
BlueTwo said:
I could not find a place for the sheet block that was far enough aft to bisect the foot/luff angle which I always thought was mandatory on all headsails.
Click to expand...

You really need to go sailing with the sail and watch the telltales break. Often a jib pulled out on the dock in lightish air will look like the foot is too loose, but when sailing and filled out with breeze the leach will load up and the foot and leach curves will then look correct.

The 'bisect angle' is a simple starting rule of thumb. More correctly you want all the jib telltales to break at the same time (for your 'average trim setting). Depending on how the jib was cut that may well put the sheet angle above the bisecting angle - that's quite common.

If you take the jib sailing and still can't get the telltales to break evenly, it is quite possible and straightforward (and should not be too expensive) to have the jib recut to bring the sheeting position forward (Typically done by cutting a wedge shape off the luff to tilt the sail down, but can also be done by taking a wedge off the foot.)
 
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BlueTwo said:
On my new (to me) boat.

I have a high cut roller jib/genoa. I replaced it with a normal but older deck sweeping roller genoa from the sail locker.

I did this because I could not sheet it in. I could not find a place for the sheet block that was far enough aft to bisect the foot/luff angle which I always thought was mandatory on all headsails.

The foot of the sail is "loose" and has "belly" while the luff is tight. This taking the sheet block to the aft mooring cleat.

During this winter I have noticed photographs of a number of yachts with high cut jib/genoas, and their sheet lead is no better than mine.

Have I got it wrong I wonder? Is this normal? I always thought that jib/genoas like mine belonged on the end of a long bowsprit.

I would like to put this "flying jib" back on the roller because it is almost new, but I am concerned about windward performance.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Sounds like the jib was not made for your boat. The "bisect the angle at the clew" rule for sheet leads is a rough starting point, not an absolute, but if the foot is still loose with the leech (I assume you meant this, not luff) tight and the lead as far aft as it wll go then it's never going to set properly.

Because you see other boats with sails set badly doesn't mean it's right....
 
jwilson said:
The "bisect the angle at the clew" rule for sheet leads is a rough starting point, not an absolute, but if the foot is still loose with the leech (I assume you meant this, not luff) tight and the lead as far aft as it wll go then it's never going to set properly.

Because you see other boats with sails set badly doesn't mean it's right....
Click to expand...

You are correct, I meant leach. Sorry.

Good idea about tell tales. I will fit them and test again underway.

Estarzinger. Thinking about what you wrote about a full sail under wind pressure having an improved shape makes sense. I did my mini-test while at anchor in a light wind. I didn't give it a good test.

I am puzzled about the suggestion of a Barber Hauler. I need something to pull the sheet lead up, not down.
 
When I got my boat she had a deck sweeping genny and a high cut genny. Both set ok but for the last seven years have only used the high cut genny as the vis is so much better and makes for more relaxing sailing. The blocks are set about six inches fwd of the position for the big genny.
Some sail area is lost which isn't too bright in light winds, but avoids the need for popping up like rabbits to see forward!!!:)
 
You could rig a block attatched to your normal genoa car by way of a short rope strop . Only problem is during tacking unless you control the sheets to keep some weight on the one you are releasing, the block will flog around possibly damaging gelcoat , windows, crew etc.
 
I have a high cut jib that we use in stronger winds. The sheeting angles. Are very different from a low cut jib. I cannot go into details here as I a typing this onmy new phone but I sheet the high cut forward of the full genoa and that is the way it should be

Go sailing in a reasonable breee and play with the sheeting angle. You want the slot to be even forget about the foot your Saul does not have one.
 
Thanks everyone. Really good advice.

I will re-load the foil with the high cut after placing tell tails and give the sail a better test than a static hand-held pull on the sheets.

Interesting that bisecting the angle is a starting position only. But I am surprised that I am recommended to sheet the high cut forward of the genoa position. I concentrated on much further aft even to the stern cleats. Can't wait for Spring (April) when I launch again.
 
It all depends on the cut. Assuming the sail was cut to fit your boat them I would expect it to fit. On temptress the high cut sheets from approximately the same position as the genoa with 3 rolls.

I would go out and play with it. It wil set differently to what you might expect
 
Coupla thoughts.

If the sail is from another boat, but - generally - is in good nick, consider having it re-cut to fit. Will be cheaper than new.

Used to race a boat with a high cut jib in the wardrobe. It sheeted to separate track, further forward and inboard of the full genoa track. So maybe take the sheet lead inboard of the shrouds as well as forward?

Med sailing = light airs for much of the time. So more sail area is good, less is bad. If you can sort the hi-cut, maybe normally use the full genny (if it's a good'un) and reload with the hi-cut when stronger winds are about.
 
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