Heres the reason he climbed the mast to escape

[A1Sailor]

And how many schizophrenia cases are caused by alcohol, by comparison? I said that cannabis was a far softer drug than alcohol... You've only bolstered my argument by adding in mental health issues.

Why not tell us, then? How many schizophrenia cases are caused by alcohol?

 

[Manuel_Hung]

Can I beg to differ there..
As said elsewhere on this forum, I am a marmite eating fruitcake with manic depression... I sometime self medicate with booze... (even though I know it does not actually help).... However, I have never had any experience of schizophrenia from drinking..

Thanks for sharing.
Do you think that some others get equally positive results from self medicating with cannabis? I assume that your biggest risk is stress?

 

[rbcoomer]

Why not tell us, then? How many schizophrenia cases are caused by alcohol?

Couldn't give you a number, but this will make a interesting read I'm sure: http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/disorders/schizophreniaalcohol.html

My neighbours regularly smoke stuff they shouldn't, but they don't drink much. Both work hard and I wouldn't say either have mental health issues, serious lung problems maybe - but that's as likely due to legal stuff they smoke as the illegal (probably more so given the chemical additives in cigarettes). Weed (or other drugs) have no appeal to me whatsoever, but having known many who have partaken over the years I can't say any seemed more delusional than me! I do know many people who rely heavily on alcohol however and they do tend to have interesting 'sides' to their characters when either under the effects or withdrawn from them. Substance abuse of any kind is bad, but the government don't make a % on weed sales so therefore it must be bad - if it were legal and taxed of course it would be fine and have no side affects whatsoever... If you drink more than the equivalent of 3-4 of bottles of wine a week then you quite likely have a problem - especially if you get really bad tempered when you don't have any!

 

[Manuel_Hung]

Why not tell us, then? How many schizophrenia cases are caused by alcohol?

Hospital Episode Statistics. Count of finished admission episodes (FAE) with a primary diagnosis of mental and behavioural disorders due to use of cannabinoids (ICD10 code F12) and alcohol (ICD10 code F10)

Cannabinoids (F12)

2009-10 713
2010-11 799
2011-12 1003

Alcohol (F10)

2009-10 47,402
2010-11 47,287
2011-12 47,682

Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for health and social care.

There are three million regular users of cannabis (Atha et al 2011) and 31 million regular users of alcohol (NHS Information Centre 2009). Therefore alcohol use is six times more likely to result in admission for mental and behavioural disorders.

 

[A1Sailor]

Hospital Episode Statistics. Count of finished admission episodes (FAE) with a primary diagnosis of mental and behavioural disorders due to use of cannabinoids (ICD10 code F12) and alcohol (ICD10 code F10)

Cannabinoids (F12)

2009-10 713
2010-11 799
2011-12 1003

Alcohol (F10)

2009-10 47,402
2010-11 47,287
2011-12 47,682

Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for health and social care.

There are three million regular users of cannabis (Atha et al 2011) and 31 million regular users of alcohol (NHS Information Centre 2009). Therefore alcohol use is six times more likely to result in admission for mental and behavioural disorders.

Thanks. Is it cause and effect, or association?

 

[titian]

Statistics

Hospital Episode Statistics. Count of finished admission episodes (FAE) with a primary diagnosis of mental and behavioural disorders due to use of cannabinoids (ICD10 code F12) and alcohol (ICD10 code F10)

Cannabinoids (F12)

2009-10 713
2010-11 799
2011-12 1003

Alcohol (F10)

2009-10 47,402
2010-11 47,287
2011-12 47,682

Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for health and social care.

There are three million regular users of cannabis (Atha et al 2011) and 31 million regular users of alcohol (NHS Information Centre 2009). Therefore alcohol use is six times more likely to result in admission for mental and behavioural disorders.

That last line is frightening isn't it?

 

[Tomahawk]

Thanks for sharing.
Do you think that some others get equally positive results from self medicating with cannabis? I assume that your biggest risk is stress?

Yes I think from my experience that stress is a big trigger for depression.. And being s bit of a drinker I am only too willing to open a bottle... Does that make me a bad person!

However on a slightly different tack... I know someone who has MS and apparently uses canabis to alleviate the symptoms of that dredful desease..

 

[Felixcat]

Here is a ranking of the harm caused to society and the user by various drugs, as assessed by experts. Alcohol is the most damaging coming in ahead of heroin, crack, methamphetamines cocaine and tobacco, in that order. In terms of harm to society, as opposed to the user, alcohol's lead is even greater.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

 

[SimonFa]

Hospital Episode Statistics. Count of finished admission episodes (FAE) with a primary diagnosis of mental and behavioural disorders due to use of cannabinoids (ICD10 code F12) and alcohol (ICD10 code F10)

Cannabinoids (F12)

2009-10 713
2010-11 799
2011-12 1003

Alcohol (F10)

2009-10 47,402
2010-11 47,287
2011-12 47,682

Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for health and social care.

There are three million regular users of cannabis (Atha et al 2011) and 31 million regular users of alcohol (NHS Information Centre 2009). Therefore alcohol use is six times more likely to result in admission for mental and behavioural disorders.

Not quite, Lord Copper. The anti alcohol lobby has been winning the day:

http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/million-alcohol-related-hospital.html

http://straightstatistics.org/article/drink-and-disease-how-figures-can-confuse

 

[Babylon]

Hospital Episode Statistics. Count of finished admission episodes (FAE) with a primary diagnosis of mental and behavioural disorders due to use of cannabinoids (ICD10 code F12) and alcohol (ICD10 code F10)

Cannabinoids (F12)

2009-10 713
2010-11 799
2011-12 1003

Alcohol (F10)

2009-10 47,402
2010-11 47,287
2011-12 47,682

Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for health and social care.

There are three million regular users of cannabis (Atha et al 2011) and 31 million regular users of alcohol (NHS Information Centre 2009). Therefore alcohol use is six times more likely to result in admission for mental and behavioural disorders.

Misleading information: you stated previously that 'alcohol causes schizophrenia'.

I'm not denying the overwhelming figures you've now quoted (heavily canted by the fact that alcohol use and abuse is far more prolific than drug use and abuse), but of the 'mental and behavioural disorders' cited above exactly what numbers or proportion are 'alcohol-induced schizophrenia'?

Any? One? Nineteen? Forty-seven thousand?

 

[Heckler]

........ and because it was legalised more people start using drugs as they feel its ok to do so , as it s legal now, the NHS gets loaded up with more over dose cases , more ambulance call outs , the police are busier as now there are three times as many people stealing to feed a habit, insurance costs rise , ........... There goes all that additional tax revenue

Death penalty for dealers and hand chopped off for users......yeah sounds harsh .... Then all we need is a suitable punishment for smokers

Exactly, what is the price of legal alcohol to society?
Stu

 

[sighmoon]

I believe they're rarely random, except for some training exercises. UKBF contacts are usually intelligence-led; i.e. they knew what they would find and waited until the boat was at sea with indisputable evidence on board.

Most busts come from tip offs, which mostly come from rival gangs. Drug lords are the only ones to benefit from the present drug policy.

I tend to agree with Simon..
The police have been trying to enforce drugs out of soceity for over fifty years... they have failed
Thenexisting drugs industry encourages petty theaving... Indeed I herd a comment that most aquisitive theft is to feed drugs habits... so if you have ever had anything nicked or been burgled you are a victim of the failure of present drugs policy..
Taking this haul out the supply chain simply puts up the price on the streets, cUsing more financial turmoil for adicts and fueling another big haul...

Indeed I suggest that if Drugs supply were legal and licensed for sale at pharmacies... it would bankrupt the Taliban, reduce the amount of turf wars in inner city estates, reduce theft..... and pay huge amounts of tax to help reduce the deficit!

+1

Lusty raises an interesting point regarding taxation..
It does seem thencase that UK tax has risen tomthe point where tobaco supply has gone to the black market... Again poor thinking from the Government, insteqd of getting more revenue, they are loosing millions to smugglers..

I would suggest that education should include, forgoing free NHS tatment for lung cancer?

Tobacco tax more than covers the entire NHS.

There's also the issue of quality. Counterfeiters aren't going to worry too much about padding the product with cheaper and possibly more dangerous stuff so they can make even more money. This is a major problem with recreational drugs where brick dust is sometimes used leading to higher health risks.

They'd probably use a cheap leaf, like grass from the lawnmower. In contrast to legit cigarettes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes

 

[BruceDanforth]

Going schizo once or twice just increases the dynamic range of your head.

A psychotic episode to one / a masonic degree to another.

Where's that flying teapot?

Blah! Blah! Blah!

Thanks. Is it cause and effect, or association?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... Tobacco tax more than covers the entire NHS.....

No it doesn't apparently, by a factor of 10.

So

Smoking “costs the British taxpayer more than £1.7billion a year in treatment bills”
(from this article)

And from elsewhere on the internet:

“Most of the expenditure of The Department of Health (£98.7 billion in 2008-9[4]) is spent on the NHS.”
(from Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_He...(England)

And

UK Tax revenue from tobacco products - £10 billion (approx)
From tma website
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tobacco-tax-re...

So
NHS costs - £100 billion
Smoking makes the government £10 billion
Smoking costs – £2 billion

From https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cigarette_tax_receipts_v_cost_of