help with refit estimate please

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raymondmcm

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Hi

I would be grateful if anyone with recent experience could help me do a rough estimate for refitting a moody 30

She is in reasonable condition but pretty much original including roller reefing boom.

Some of the following would no doubt be serviceable for a few years yet but I would prefer that if I bought it to do most if it now

New engine and whatever bits need to fit including fitting to existing sail drive and total overhaul of sail drive
New mast and boom slab reefing with lazy jacks and sail bag with all new standing and running rigging.
New cruising sail main and Genoa
New electronics wind/log/depth
Calorifier and hot and cold presurised water
Replace all throughhull fittings
Electric windlass

Any other necessities that I have missed.

Much of the rest I can do myself but at the moment I have more money than time although I am by no means rich but my feeling is by doing this I should end up with a better boat than spending the same amount of money on a 2002-5 boat ?


I know its a lot but that's what I want to do and I intend keeping it for at least 10 years and possibly a lot more

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
 
Almost as much as the boat will cost to buy! Avoid the temptation to graft a new engine onto the old saildrive. The drive is horrendous cost to replace on its own if it subsequently fails and you will find parts for the old drive very expensive - hooking up a new engine to a 30 year old obsolete drive not good! Best to buy a Volvo or a Yanmar package then you know that everything is matched and will work, and will not be as expensive as you might think. However, still roughly £9k+ by the time you have replaced the exhaust, insulation and other engine related bits.

Not sure why you want a new mast and boom, but with rigging that will be about £8k. You can convert to slab reefing using the existing boom - not as neat as new boom, but quite practical. Mast should not need replacing. Gear for slab reefing around £1k, standing rigging a bit more, Sails minimum £2k.

Hot water, plumbing, through hulls another £1k, windlass including cables and battery £1.5k. Expect you will find the electrical system will need upgrading to cope with all the new gear.

Maybe better to spend twice as much as your basic boat budget and buy a more modern boat that does not need all that work.
 
Rigger Mortice said:
Buy a better boat.
Click to expand...

+1
Unless there's some hugely compelling reason to go for the particular boat, it's highly likely that one will turn up soon which doesn't need all that doing. A boat of the same age and condition as the one you are looking at, but where all that stuff has been renewed fairly recently, would generally sell for MUCH less than it will cost you to buy the worse one and all the new stuff.

IMHO buying a cheap tatty boat makes sense if what's needed to do her up is mainly work, and you can do a significant amount yourself.

OP - have you a guess in mind yourself as to the cost of that refit?

Cheers,
A.
 
I have a figure in my head that it will cost around 18-20 k for the bits and I was thinking of offering about 10k for the boat although he probably won't accept that so my plan may never get any further.

I have looked at many yachts if various ages in the 25-35k range and to e blunt they were ****.

I am VERY fussy and I am an engineer so I like everything to be done properly like I would do it myself.

Many boats that are the current owners pride and joy leave me thinking what sort of drugs they were on when they thought up the price. In very good condition = drooping headliner, algae covered decks and rigging, brown checked cushions, etc etc

If I could afford new there would be no question but unfortunately my budget is 25-30k for something in the region of 32 foot it should be capable of taking me all round Ireland and hopefully someday all round Scotland and maybe further but must also be comfortable as a place to spend weekends in the Marina with family and friends with most time cruising between Belfast and strangford lough and the west coast of scotland
 
Nobody will tell you less than £10,000 and you could easily spend £20,000. It depends how much DIY you could put in. I have assumed that you meant new reefing gear - and not a new complete rig.

As the other have said you would end up with a lot of money in the boat, which you could never get back. Almost every week someone on here posts, saying old boats are vastly "overpriced". What they are really saying is that they are ignorant of what a well maintained boat demands in pound notes and expect to be given the boat for nowt with the seller knuckling his cap in thanks. Your little shopping list shows why many better older boats are not asking a great deal.

As existing owners we are stuck with it but don't back yourself into this particular corner if you can help it.

I would suggest, as the others have, you either spend your money on a boat already sorted, or buy your boat and sail it.
 
It's not up to the current owner to finance your perceived wish list for your ideal boat. If you are as fussy as you say, you may well be looking for a boat still in 20 years time. Perhaps look into a new boat - at least all the bits will be new.
 
Thanks for taking the time to reply but if you have nothing constructive to say then please save your energy.

I am not asking for justification of the project but as in the first post I am asking advice from people who have carried out similar work as to how much it ACTUALLY cost, no guesses no estimates no reasons not to do it.

I can estimate and guess myself and I can also think of any number of reasons not to do it without any help. I am not so naive as to start burning tenners
:-)
Thanks
 
When (if?) your offer is accepted you will need a survey and I can guarantee that that will turn up more things that really do need to be done. Your surveyor should be able to give you some guidance on likely costs. Add to that you will also need to get a raft of other bits and pieces to make the boat as you would like it.

My best advice is that there will be other costs that you have not yet factored in, but nobody here can give you any more than a guesstimate, you have not provided enough information.
 
I think that Tranona has covered it. Your list will come out at the top of your budget, and I agree that it's an effective way to start a ten year ownership. I like the approach.

You haven't mentioned the cost of the interior refurb - headliners, cushions etc. That's going to be a couple of thousand if you do it all yourself though.

I also think that you've been misunderstood. Worn out and tatty boats can sell very cheaply. The big problem is that most sellers won't accept that their boat is actually worn out and tatty. Search long and hard though, and you may well find one. Read any of the Centaur threads to see how far one man is prepared to go to find the right one!

If you're a MechEng, you won't really need a full survey, condition of structure only (inc Osmosis check). If you're a Civil, may the Lord help you.
 
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I rebuilt an elderly Sabre 27, built in 71 what i really bought was a cheap hull & deck with some usable bits. Halfway into the refit i was up to 9.5k, by the end i had long stopped counting. Engine, stern gear, sea cocks, rudder, chainplates, woodwork refinish, new rubbing bands, repaint, rewire, new toilet, new upholstery, rigging, new fittings. the list goes on.
Whatever you think it will cost double it. And its my trade so i supposedly know what im doing! Best bet is to find a boat where some nutcase has already done the refit!
 
If you want most of the work listed done for you, I'd say you're looking at something approaching £25K, but would add that the work listed does not amount to a full refit.
 
I bought my 1971 boat for £55k. I think that the previous owner but one spent £100k on her re-fit post-purchase. The previous owner to me bought her for £55k. Take this as a lesson on whether you should find a decrepit wreck or a sparkly re-fitted classic. Same goes for classic cars. I've since spent £30k. What's she worth? About £55k. Sermon over.
 
The only thing I am confused over is whether the OP is asking for a figure for the items listed to be done by a yard or what they will cost to buy for him to fit himself?

If he's paying a yard, then the bill for all those items could easily be £25k or maybe more. Even budget sails and stackpack will be £2 to £3k and it sounds as though neither he nor I believe in buying budget end items. I do nearly all the work on our boat myself (until the yard got her this year for osmosis treatment!) and I have again been reminded of how eye watering yard costs are. The hourly rate at the yard I am using is something like £45 plus VAT and boats EAT hours of work in refits.

PS Buying a new engine and saildrive as a package would be potentially cheaper and much more sensible than trying to marry up a new engine to a refurbished drive.
 
raymondmcm said:
Thanks for taking the time to reply but if you have nothing constructive to say then please save your energy.

I am not asking for justification of the project but as in the first post I am asking advice from people who have carried out similar work as to how much it ACTUALLY cost, no guesses no estimates no reasons not to do it.

I can estimate and guess myself and I can also think of any number of reasons not to do it without any help. I am not so naive as to start burning tenners
:-)
Thanks
Click to expand...
To give you an actual cost would be impossible, as I strongly suspect that nobody has done all that work on a Moody 30 in the same condition as the one you are looking at.

The only way you are going to find that is to sit with Google and price the parts then take a decision about who is doing the labour - quite an enjoyable pastime in these long winter nights.
 
Rough guess would be 20k min l
Perhaps even more if you can not do most of the work yourself.

Depending on the initial purchase cost you may find better options by getting a different post boat

Do you really need new mast, boom, etc or can the existing ones be refurbished?


I
 
Twister_Ken said:
Only bit of that I've done is a new engine (old 10hp Bukh out, new 10hp Bukh in), plus new ancillaries where required. Done by yard £5K. And a new cruising Genoa (28' footer, 130%) £1200.

2004 prices.
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Good advice. I hope the OP remembers that prices seem to go up almost exponentially with the length of the boat. I think the new genoa for his slightly larger boat might be more like £2k now. I wonder if you would get any change out of £11k or so for the yard to fit a new engine? The only way to find out is to ask, and its the wrong time of year to be asking!
 
Mast and boom - keep and keep the roller furling-mine was converted and I dislike my lazyjacks and slab reefing intensely.
Engines-most yacht engines get hardly any use viz a viz your average car engine but can get neglected-worth considering that a four cylinder recon can be done for £1000 if you strip and rebuild yourself.
 
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