Help required!

[longjohnsilver]

Haven't read the whole thread, but isn't it a case of not revving in gear, rather than stopping an engine?

If so, fouled props will easily do that. When trouble shooting nay performance problem, always start with a clean hull and clean stern gear otherwise you can be chasing your tail looking for a problem that doesn't exist. The op know his props are fouled, yet continues to look elsewhere.

"Open sea and discovered engines would accelerate to 1100rpm but no further ( max 2400). Continued down the coast and stbd engine died. After 10 mins restarted and noted erratic movement on flow meter. Died repeatedly but restarted after say 15 mins. Concerns over port engine increased anxiety. Weather deteriorated to NW F6 with 3m swells. Arrived late but safely in Royan.
"Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?486591-Help-required!#EopDl2brxA1lESxE.99

 

[Topic]

I know the whole boat was scraped and painted mid June and as of yesterday some very light growth on props. I don't consider it enough to prevent engines from accelerating. However we are running out of options so will haul out on Wednesday and clean shafts and props ?

 

[prv]

If you're sure it's not fuel filters or air leaks then you need to look elsewhere, although I'd still be thinking fuel starvation.

I had problems with the dip pipe into the tank getting blocked with lumps of bug/sludge.

I don't know if that's such a problem in Mobo sizes (my sailyboat fuel plumbing is 8mm), or if it would just get sucked through your larger hoses and show up in the filter.

Pete

 

[longjohnsilver]

I had problems with the dip pipe into the tank getting blocked with lumps of bug/sludge.

I don't know if that's such a problem in Mobo sizes (my sailyboat fuel plumbing is 8mm), or if it would just get sucked through your larger hoses and show up in the filter.

Pete

Not unknown for that to happen.

Some builders also put a gauze on the pickup in the tank which can have the same effect. Blowing it back through with a dinghy pump is the usual answer to clearing it. Again on my previous boat where I had fuel issues I was lucky in having a large inspection hatch on the top of the tank which then allowed me to get an electric suction pump with a long pickup into the tank. I then effectively hoovered up the gunk from the bottom of the tank.

 

[burgundyben]

Was

props are covered in small, tip of finger size crustaceans! Amazing after just two and a half months since lift out. Hull clean as a whistle.

Now

as of yesterday some very light growth on props. ps I don't consider it enough to prevent engines from accelerating.

You may not, engines may consider it differently!

Engines not making a lot of power at 1100rpm, maybe they just can't get past 1100rpms due to the prop fouling. Blade profile and the fluid dynamics over it are pretty sensitive.

 

[vas]

Was



Now



You may not, engines may consider it differently!

Engines not making a lot of power at 1100rpm, maybe they just can't get past 1100rpms due to the prop fouling. Blade profile and the fluid dynamics over it are pretty sensitive.

+1
last year in September I couldn't get up to plane and would only do 1300rpm out of the 2600something they do...
Doesn't solve the engine stalling issue though, unless you were pushing all along the way and not easing out on the throttles.
No black smoke at the back doesn't help either.
Well, lets see what the prop de-crusting does!

cheers

V.

 

[Topic]

Any thoughts on whether this could be an electronic problem? New harness fitted in June. If the cleaning of the props doesn't solve the problem that's pretty much all I am left with ��

 

[Portofino]

Was it sea trailed in June with its new repairs?

 

[burgundyben]

Any thoughts on whether this could be an electronic problem? New harness fitted in June. If the cleaning of the props doesn't solve the problem that's pretty much all I am left with ��

If props cleaned doesn't solve it, I'd insert a clear section into the return line, check for bubbles passing along under load, that'll highlight a fueling issue.

 

[Topic]

Unfortunately I wasin UK when the new harness was fitted. Secodi gave me an invoice including the statement "Test at Sea (Engines Loaded)". I have no way of knowing whether this was done as the engine hour meters are now not working!

 

[Jim@sea]

I had a fuel filter problem, the new filter came with a slightly thinner, non rubber, seal and the only way I could get a proper seal was to use two sealing rings,

 

[Portofino]

Unfortunately I wasin UK when the new harness was fitted. Secodi gave me an invoice including the statement "Test at Sea (Engines Loaded)". I have no way of knowing whether this was done as the engine hour meters are now not working!

Thx
It would have been , even minor stuff with a poss of leaks the Fr - engineers -test .

So it's the props as said ^^^^ numerous times .
Just hope you have not seriously overloaded them -" tight wire " @ 1100 rpm .
Although the water temp seemed ok ,without EGT guages if they rise then the valves distort and are a poor fit -hence the poor running stalling --- until it cools down !
Have you got oil temp guages ?

When it's running properly with clean props ,which it will --- keep an eye on the oil consumption and blow by pressure *now as the valve guides don,t like excessive EGT ,

* take the oil filler cap off on the rocker box and see how much the pressure is .

Hope it's all ok ? ---when you load it with clean props

 

[Topic]

... and a large mea culpa from me!





Pictures of before and after. Did not think that would be the fouling given they were polished mid June. Now to find an anti-fouling solution for unpainted props and shafts. Any experience with ultrasonics?

Straight out to sea and engines ran up to 2000 rpm without effort or smoke. During the problem run down from La Rochelle, temperatues and lube oil pressure remained normal throughout. Still don't know why stbd engine was stalling at low rpm but seems fine now.

Many thanks for all the advice. Without your input I would have delayed the lift-out. Full fuel and water and ready for the weather to ease. Thanks again

 

[Firefly625]

Ben is a genius

Glad problem sorted. Lovely looking boat btw.

I have the identical engine fitted in my Mitchell, on our last trip back, engine on tickover approaching my berth the engine was struggling, sounded as though it was about to stall. Got to the berth and I was tying up with engine in netrual on tickover and indeed it stalled. I restarted and she rev'ed fine, but in neutral although she did not stall again she was running at such low rpm she sounded on the cusp of stalling. I cannot see that the idle speed could have altered, but to be honest left the boat shortly after and now reading through this post it has reminded me that I may need to think about it and sort!

Ben, having read the Perkins manual it just states idle speed set by the factory and do not adjust. any views? (OP, I imagine you may be interested in any info relating to this as well)

 

[burgundyben]

Ben is a genius

Obvs. I've project managed development work with an element of aero design, so I have an understanding of the sensitivity of aero design. Direct read across to props.

Ref the stalling, my M265Ti's in Playtime (god I loooved those engines in that boat, hammer down at 30 knots and she took off) sometimes conked out at idle and stalled going into gear when first fitted, a small adjustment to tickover sorted it. But, that's a bigger inline pump.

I also had an M225Ti like yours but in a Huntress, I took it out one day with 11 adults a baby and a dog on board, wouldn't plane, ran hotter than usual and tick over messed about, but once unloaded was fine. I think its CAV pump isn't it? What is tickover set at? As the engine gains hours, a small adjustment to tick over wouldn't bother me as long as it didn't need doing regularly, I'd be concerned if a trend of needing adjustment appeared.

 

[Firefly625]

Obvs. I've project managed development work with an element of aero design, so I have an understanding of the sensitivity of aero design. Direct read across to props.

Ref the stalling, my M265Ti's in Playtime (god I loooved those engines in that boat, hammer down at 30 knots and she took off) sometimes conked out at idle and stalled going into gear when first fitted, a small adjustment to tickover sorted it. But, that's a bigger inline pump.

I also had an M225Ti like yours but in a Huntress, I took it out one day with 11 adults a baby and a dog on board, wouldn't plane, ran hotter than usual and tick over messed about, but once unloaded was fine. I think its CAV pump isn't it? What is tickover set at? As the engine gains hours, a small adjustment to tick over wouldn't bother me as long as it didn't need doing regularly, I'd be concerned if a trend of needing adjustment appeared.

Hi Ben, not cav but Bosch VE rotary pump I believe. A little digging I have done does show they can be a little temperamental on fuel temperature & the day of the problem was very hot.. Will be interesting to see what she runs like on the weekend. from memory normal tickover around 650rpm, but on the day of stall had dropped to a wavering 400rpm

 

[Portofino]

... and a large mea culpa from me!

View attachment 66253

View attachment 66254

Pictures of before and after. Did not think that would be the fouling given they were polished mid June. Now to find an anti-fouling solution for unpainted props and shafts. Any experience with ultrasonics?

Straight out to sea and engines ran up to 2000 rpm without effort or smoke. During the problem run down from La Rochelle, temperatues and lube oil pressure remained normal throughout. Still don't know why stbd engine was stalling at low rpm but seems fine now.

Many thanks for all the advice. Without your input I would have delayed the lift-out. Full fuel and water and ready for the weather to ease. Thanks again

Good result .
I've tried all sorts ( salty Med ) - to mitigate prop fouling ,used to be real issue with stern drives ( 600nm torque ) unable to rev --just like you .
With MAN ,s 2500 Nm torque ,they just spin up any how .
Thing is accelerating is slower and I can see the load and EGT all rising far too high for a given speed .
Say 97 % and 650 degree ,but only say 24/26 knots .
So I find a quiet anchorage ,dive in scrape the stern gear ,30 mins later --- all done .
Normal service --- btw the L/ hr shoots up too with fouled props .

So the best way is basically physical clean .
They are ok left for a week ,but any longer as said 3-4 weeks then they need a scrub .
The EGT and load gauges tell me when they are ready , and thus protect the engines ,

 

[Topic]

Many thanks and advice noted.

Unwilling to be splashing Euro 500 every two months so as you suggested, my free diving skills will have to improve! I guess if caught early it won't be such a job. No way could Ihave cleared todays fouling whilst free diving, it took three people an hour and a half and some force to remove the growth.

 

[Seastoke]

hi topic do you have a full workshop manual for the 225ti ,roy

 

[Topic]

Yes , I have all manuals on board including installation manual and original engine certification.