Help please, totally stuck in a very bad place after a yacht sale, dispute! Help!

norti_raskal

norti_raskal

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Hi there
I have just bought HERITAGE a 1984 Sigma 33 from Michael Schmidt & Partner at their office in Hamble Point Marina.

The brokers were ever so fast and efficient when it came to accepting my immediate bank transfer etc, but now they seem to be denying things and passing the buck.

Having paid the negotiated price then paying full it has come to light that many things on the brokers inventory are missing plus a few extra things that were on the boat by the old owners admission were also missing.

I am missing the following

1 - Small Spinnaker (on inventory & admitted by owners, disputed by MS&P as they are confused)
2 - Storm gib (on inventory & admitted by owners not disputede by MS&P)
3 - Dacron main (on inventory & admitted by ownwers, disputed by MS&P)
4 - Spinnaker sheets (admitted by owners, disputed by MS&P as not on inventory)
5 - Spinnaker control lines/tweakers (admitted by owners disputed by MS&P as not on inventory)
6 - Genoa Sheets (admitted by ownwers disputed by MS&P as not on inventory)
7 - Mooring lines (admitted by owners disputed by MS&P as not on inventory)
8 - X6 life jackets (on inventory & admitted by owners not disputed by MS&P)
9 - X6 harnesses (on inventory & admitted by owners not disputed by MS&P)
10 - Barometer (on inventory & admitted by owners not disputed by MS&P
11 - Second Anchor (on inventory and not disputed by MS&P)

Old for new for the above would come to over £8000 give or take a few quid!!!!

The owners came to Hamble Point this sunday to deliver the boat cushions and other bits and pieces and dictated to me as i was writing down what was missing, some on the inventory of sale some not.

They brought along other bits and pieces that they had lying around for me to decide wether i wanted to keep or not.

The two owners and myself looked at all the sails that were present and they told me specifically that the Storm Gib, the Spinnaker and the Dacron mainsail were missing along with, genoa lines, spinnaker sheets, spinnaker tweakers, morring lines and various other warps and sheets were missing.

I would think that a boat being sold with two spinnakers would have the warps and sheets to control them along with genoa sheets would be included, one would have to be a total tight wad scrooge to not include them and besides they would have been made up especially for the boat in question.

I had to rig the racing main that came with the boat as the Dacron main used for cruising was not present, I didnt really want to rig the racing main, I would of rather rigged the dacron cruising sail had it been there, it wasn't

I also had to spend another night at Hamble Point Marina paying £34 plus the van I had borrowed to transport the extras back to Brighton on Sunday evening had to go back to its owner today, I did not make it to Brighton in the van last night due to the lack of inventory, since the van goes back to its ownwer today I had to unload the kit and rent a shed for £10 for the week as well.

The owners were upfront about what was missing and were very fothright and honest, the brokers are being a bit sheepish and are passing the buck onto the old owners.

I feel that I have not got what I paid for and am getting pretty annoyed by the slowness of the broker and their attitude and lack of sympathy along with taking time to sort it all out.

I find myself being in the middle of a headache that I really could do without right now.

What the hell do I do now, where do I stand, what can I do, what can be done, who is at fault.

Can someone give me some advice or help here, I'm calm right now but my temparature is rising.

Thanks!
 
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New for old doesn't work here, you need to look at old for old value. Let's assume this is more like £3,000 to have the old items you thought you were getting. Now you have to decide how much you are willing to spend in money, time and emotional energy to pursue that £3,000. a few missing lines is surely neither here nor there so offer to settle for £2,000 principally for those two missing sails and move on.
 
I'm a bit confused as to what's gone on here. If these things aren't on the boat, where are they? Normally it would be a case of the previous owner having kept them, but it sounds like they are playing ball so presumably not. Are you saying that they disappeared mysteriously while the boat was awaiting sale?

Pete
 
The responsibility to pass on all the items lies with the seller, that is 'old owner'. If they are missing they cannot blame the broker unless they had an arrangement where the broker had the yacht in custody, in which case they should report the missing items as theft and claim from their insurance.
 
Usually the inventory is mentioned in the contract you sign eg purchase of vessel and inventory as listed in clause C ( which is usually the listing document prepared by the brokers). This should have been verified by the broker prior to sale and the previous owner should have signed that this was the listed inventory. If you have stuff missing, to the letter of the law, the contract is incomplete and your monies are to be returned to you. In reality, it would be a solicitor job. I would press the broker for their lack of due diligence and would inform them that they have a specific amount of time to sort the issues out before you proceed on a legal footing and report them to the ABYA or whatever their professional body is called these days.
 
I don't think you can expect too much out of the broker on this - they are just the intermediary between you and the previous owner. If you can show that they (the broker) conspired with the previous owner to defraud you, then you could sue them (the broker) but if they acted in good faith, then the fault is primarily with the previous owner for misrepresenting the boat or with you for not checking sufficiently carefully before completing the purchase. Has the money been handed over to the previous owner, or is it still in the broker's escrow account?
 
The owners admiited and stated to me (both of them) the items that were missing.
They were absolutely sure that certain items were on the boat or were being held in storage by the broker.
We all waded through the various sails and looked in the places they remembered where the items were but we came up with a list (the one you see here) of items that were not present.
I guess I will have to deal with both parties, broker and owners.
 
If the money hasn't been handed over, then the sale is not complete and the boat still belongs to the seller - it is for them to resolve the missing items with the broker or for them to agree a price adjustment with you such that you accept the boat in its current condition.
 
we got hit with a pile of things missing or not as listed on the advert.

unfortunately we went for a private sale and we were left with the problems in hand including the bodged wiring created from removing items that whould of been left on our boat.

I cant understand why people advertise things then half of it appears missing or incorrect.

I hope you find a solution to your troubles and its just missing parts that need resolved and not any hidden bodged repairs
 
symondo said:
I cant understand why people advertise things then half of it appears missing or incorrect.
Click to expand...

I suspect some things fall off the list following aggressive negotiations from buyers in many cases. When I sell my boat I intend to list it as an inclusive price with everything and then quite openly remove items if people make silly offers. i.e. "yes I'll lower the price by £500 but that would be the cost without auto tiller and plotter if you're happy with that?"

Hopefully not what happened here, but I suspect that is the answer to your question.
 
lustyd said:
I suspect some things fall off the list following aggressive negotiations from buyers in many cases. When I sell my boat I intend to list it as an inclusive price with everything and then quite openly remove items if people make silly offers. i.e. "yes I'll lower the price by £500 but that would be the cost without auto tiller and plotter if you're happy with that?"

Hopefully not what happened here, but I suspect that is the answer to your question.
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem likely here - according to the OP, the seller is confirming that the items in question are included with the boat - seems that they have either been lost or stolen. it seems to me that the sale is not complete till the buyer has accepted the boat and the cash has been handed over. It is for the seller to find or replace the missing items, or to revise the inventory and agree an amended price.
 
maby said:
Doesn't seem likely here - according to the OP, the seller is confirming that the items in question are included with the boat - seems that they have either been lost or stolen. it seems to me that the sale is not complete till the buyer has accepted the boat and the cash has been handed over. It is for the seller to find or replace the missing items, or to revise the inventory and agree an amended price.
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting it was the case here, just answering Symondo with a reason why it might happen.
 
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