Help please, son unhappy at uni Almost NB.

LJS:
Imho encourage him very strongly to get the degree. Change courses if necessary, but getta degree. I can distinctly remember not enjoying big chunks of my (engineering) degree. The social life was fine of course, as is case for all students, but some of the course was tough. But it is a test and seen as such by employers. I mean, it is supposed to be difficult. It filters out those who drop out, that's the whole point of it, it shows you can do something difficult. If degrees were easy, there would be no point having one.

If he gets the degree, it is a meal ticket. If he's interested in any of the big City financial firms, they will virtually never employ someone without a degree. On the other hand, a degree (plus all the other right bits) will result in multiple offers all north of £25k starting salry and a reasonably serious salary curve from thereon going to say 0.5mill typical for age late 30s and 1-1.5mill for a highish flyer. Those are typical, obvious there are outlyers. Incidentally, in the City at least, most "accountants" are not actually accountants, they advise on some business aspect or another, but they dont do numbers or write up accounts etc

I know you say he loves boats and the water. Therein lies a big question - do you mix bizniss with pleasure? Each to their own on that one, but I think better to keep separate and find work that is enjoyable but also lucrative (which sailing hardly ever is) thus allowing massive freedom of choice when sailing/buying a boat for pleasure. I mean, the risk of a sailing related career is that you cant actually afford a boat!

All imho. You will get as many opinions as posters. Best of luck to him whatever you decide

PS one more thing, if he wants to do accountancy, tellim dont get an accounting degree. Imho would makes him appear one dimensional. It is not an advantage in the milk round. Most people employed by accounting firms do not have accounting degrees.
 
I finished education 12 years ago and to be honest have never had any use for my A levels degrees etc. never been used once, it depends on the type of life you want. So much emphasis is put on these type of things when your younger and its not until you get a bit older you realise that there is a whole world out there that doesnt require bits of paper, and even if they do, get the qualification at the point you actually need them rather than wasting possible time when what you are studying may never be needed. The whole world and his wife have degrees and A levels and they mean absolutley nothing in lots of areas of life.

whats important above everything IMVHO is self belief and determination with those you can go exactly where you want to.

As somebody said earlier your going to get different answers from everybody and only he will know what might make him happy.



Kevin
 
I'm not a gas fitter but I do write my own cheques - does this mean I could be a gas fitter?

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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Hear what you say about getting the degree, but can't really see that it is an absolute given to success.

Nobody should ever use me as a role model God knows, but the only real Qualifications I have is 5 O levels and a Class 1 Welding Certificate! (Stainless and Ferrous, if anyones needs a hand), OK so I had a decent brain and ducked and dived pretty well and have enjoyed a modicum of success I suppose. However I think I would put that down more to an ability to listen, a quick mouth to brain relationship, a need to work hard at everything and above all an ability to smile.

If some of the numerous Uni Graduates I now have working for me in Customer Service, Recruitment etc had the same, I truly believe they would still have got where they are without the degree. The only thing they have, over others that haven't been to Uni, is the sense to register with as many agencies to get employment as they can.

My advice all though I really am not the one to give it is, I am sure he is a likeable lad, well mannered with a good brain, give him every support, not necessarily financial and let him gravitate naturally to his highest possible potential, with your guidance always available but not obligatory. Who knows what he may achieve? I was deemed a loser by established academic criteria, my achievements now give me great pleasure.

Perhaps a good guide would be the one from was it the VP of Microsoft to the Business interns at Yale? "The best advice I can give is for you all to leave, no VP or President in the top 100 American Companies has a Business Degree!" Or something like that.

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Pretty much what I was going to say.

Its true that our Ton' wants 50% to go to university, but that has alreday degraded the standard of trainee for the trades. I think that within a few years nearly anyone who is well qualified and reasonably educated and inteligent will make a very good living in one of the traditional trades. (Plumbers and Brikies can do it allready).

If he really does hate university, he will only ever be an also ran (degree wise) if you persuade him to stay. Hopefully its not too late to get some sort of traineeship if thats what he wants and he will be a very big, inteligent fish in a pool of a lot of smaller, barely literate and neumerate fish - in short he will shine.

I have noticed that all sorts of my family and friends and their children hav edome very well for themselves after the most unprommising starts. Myself - no GCEs - lecturere in FE. My sister - left school at 16 & got married, now qualified accountant (by night school) and first female director of an old establised company. A friends son (now about 35) left a Reading "sink" school and joined Civil Service - now very high up by working hard and being good at his job.

I am sure its the person and their ethos on life that matters in the end, not the university "education". If he has formulated a well researched and thought out plan, I would let him follow it. If he has not, I would try to persuade him to do nothing irrevicable until he has.

One last point. my son, having got a "sort of" degree, dropped out of teacher training (must admit, I was happy at that - not a very good job if you want some kind of home life, time for leasure and value your sanity these days). He is now employed as a music teacher, continually being asked to take on more work, and at last enjoying life.

A job you enjoy is far more important than money - as long a syou ahve enough to live on.

Tony Brooks

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I'm very much in favour of gap years. My youngest experienced much the same as your son. Only difference was that the lad's mother, my wife, died very suddenly during his first year. really unsettled him. I managed to get him on a Rotary Youth Exchange year. He went to New Zealand for 12 months. Had to attend college, but spent most of the year learning to play rugby and drink beer. Made some superb friends. Came back, settled down to uni and is now commercial manager of Mini in Park Lane - at 24 years old! He still says that it was the best year of his life. PM me if you want more info.
Good luck. As the Father of two lads who went through uni I know it's not easy.

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An excelent reply from JFM as usual. Let face it. You dont have to use the degree if you get it. Just increases the options. I never got a degree, or even much of an education. Just hit lucky. Would not like to risk it again. Yes he's right. Boats are for playing with, not working with. A whole lot of difference.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>Specializing in marine sanitation since 1997.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn
 
I completed a degree course at plymouth - Marine electronic navigation and Marine law.

I am did not do well in A levels but loved boats and wanted a degree. No regrets. Great course, gave me a yachtmaster and a good start in Life, loved the law bit. Degree bounced me into IT related job.

Possible alternative if Plymouth still do course.

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HLB (I did a duble take, but it was HLB) is spot on. There are many examples of people doing really well without degree or education. You plainly do not need a degree to succeed. BUT having a degree makes it easier, it reduces the risk of failure and gives you more options. Worth having for that reason imho.

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To be honest if you need a degree for something just buy yourself an accredited one for a $1,500 or so. Know of many people who know their stuff but needed paper to show it so bought one , lets face it its getting the jobs that require the degree actually doing lots of graduate jobs a trained monkey could do them!

kevin

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sorry, those salary numbers are nonsense-although seeing you have a rather large boat, maybe true for some! You cannot claim that 0.5mio typical for late 30s.Yes, sure if you are at the right House at the right time, bonuses can be generous. But you have to be damn dedicated and generally damn able to take home those numbers. And when, say a market dives, such as equities couple of years ago, an aweful lot of people go permanently to the wall. Another time its, bonds, another FX. And as regards say accountants, yes they can also earn alot, but only when they are elite specialists at structured product taxation or whatever.

Id agree about Uni ,though. Stick it out. Its a bit young in life to drop out.Bcz he has a lifetime of work ahead of him, and, well sometimes, you have to stick out the shitty times at work as well. Life gets shitty at times too, for most of us. So Id say Uni seems to be providing him with some good training...!!

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Hi John, I bummed out of six form college at a Public School and went on a YTS at a sailing school, bummed around the yard doing anitfouling and unblocking toilets, worked in the chandlery, went sailing, skippered a flemming 55 to norway and back and then at 21 I went to Uni and breezed it.

Was best 5 years of my life.



<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.
 
I've currently got 1 at Uni and 1 finished last year.
The one currently there had a gap year and seems to be far more settled than the one who's finished but didn't. So in my opinion and having seen a number of other kids in the same boat I think a Gap Year is very valuable. In your son's case, provided he does reasonably in his 1st year exams (if he has them on this course) the University may well allow him to defer his 2nd year. They also may even help him to change courses if he and they think this will improve matters. One friend of each of my lads went to and hated Cambridge and Oxford respectively and kept coming home at weekends and wanted to drop out after the first year. The University staff were very supportive and slowly managed to get both of them to stick at it. One of them ended up staying on for an extra year, whilst the other is now turning in some of the best work within his group. It is really important to discuss all of this with his tutors/head of dept. etc.

If the above doesn't suit then I'd also reiterate what some others have said re. the value of Degrees nowadays. They are no longer the be-all and end-all unless they are in a subject that is in demand and are from a university with a good track record in that particular subject.
I know of a number of recent Oxford(even) graduates with a reasonable degree in unpopular subjects that are struggling to find meaningful jobs.

So if he definitely wants out of uni - at the end of the year - don't panic. If he has enthusiasm and makes a good impression then he will probably find himself a niche somewhere that will give him a start in the direction of whatever career he fancies. A few months in somewhere like New Zealand might work wonders as well.

Finally, I also agree that his parents forcing him to stay on for the duration of the course may be a mistake for both parties.

Sorry for the long winded reply.
Good luck - to you both.

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Being a grad myself, I talked both our kids into going to uni, to study to get a profession. Law. It was a mistake. My son did his degree, didnt do brilliantly (though better than his Dad, but in my day grades didnt matter) ended up doing accountancy because he's good with numbers. Excellent salary, but the job is a chore, and its a chore for 40 years.
My daughter flunked out in year 2 - not in any way academic, though if anything brighter than her brother. Now does a pa job in the city which she likes. Not much money but happy.
Both of them would have been better left to make their own decisions, but since my dad never guided me, I felt that I should guide them. It was a mistake.
Working life is too long to be bored or miserable. He needs to follow his star and do something he likes. Better to be a happy bin man than a miserable banker.
And in any case, all the millionaires I have met (a surprising number when I added them up) , not one has a degree. What they do have is drive, a quick wit, and in some cases marginally criminal tendencies!
Blairs drive to get half the pop through uni is similar in some ways to Maggies efforts to make everyone a houseowner. Give them the middle class dream, even if its not appropriate for them or for the country. So we end up with thousands of grads in American studies and a shortage of someone to fix the bog. And we shortchange those grads who entered marginals colleges to study not very taxing degrees because they were the first family member to do so.

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What does HE want to do? Ask him, talk about it with him, find options. I have 2 boys at UNI. The oldest changed faculty after the first year. I do believe a degree lets you jump the queue a bit but doing what you enjoy doing is worth more. And people change ideas, THANK GOD.

IMHO

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Hey listen..my number 2 son was at Derby Uni - deeply unhappy - didn't like the course, whole thing was making him ill. After several weeks I'd had enough, told him to pack his stuff and that I was coming up that day to bring him back. Did just that. Took a few weeks to get him back to normal then he registered for Soton Uni - stays at home - loves the Uni - loves the course - and this year he will graduate with either a 2/1 or maybe even a first. My advice - get him home NOW

<hr width=100% size=1>There's no problems..just opportunities
 
I\'m staggered!

By the response to my post and very grateful for all the time spent on your replies.

James is due home in the next few minutes for our chat, you have all given me lots to think about. I will keep you updated as to the outcome.

Thanks again, I never expected so many repies.

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Don\'t Be

We all like James - its you we struggle with you parrot-dropping infested, one-legged old tyrant

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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