Help please - my Deckhead Lining is Falling down

kengill

kengill

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My Deckhead Lining is starting to fall down in the forecabin. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Has anyone any practical experience of re-sticking this and what techniques did you use.

I thought of using evostick a square foot at a time and supporting the area with large balloons or something like that.

Is a hair dryer helpful?

Safety bits
Well ventilated with hatches open and using pressurised air to a nose and mouth mask from my CPAP machine so I don't inhale fumes .
 
Oh dear. One hell of a nasty job looming. My experience is that if it is falling down you are on a hiding to nothing trying to keep sticking it back up. It sounds like you will have to strip it off and start again.
 
This happened to me late the season before last. It all started to fall down just as we had some people coming out with us. I needed a quick answer.

I happened to have one of those heavy-duty staple guns, and the staples were not so big they were going through the fibreglass, so I just stapled the headlining back in place, on the basis it may hold it for a weekend.

Odd thing is, it is still holding it up over a season on, indeed, I have to say I forgot that I had bodged it up for most of the season.

I’ve never read or heard of anyone else stapling the headlining up, though based on my experience I have wondered why.
 
Yeah, if it's the foam-backed stuff then the foam haas probably crumbled away. You can either do what most people do and buy some new stuff, or go for one of the other options.
I went for the former, but stuck the lining to a plywood panel that is held up by various cunning means. Sticking directly to the grp is obviously possible in theory, but I concluded that the only feasible method to get it to hold while curing was to store the boat upside-down for the winter. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Removing the foam and sticking the pvc back up is the cheapest option, but I think you'll lose a lot of the insulating properties.
The other method I've heard of is felt carpet tiles, or cork tiles, stuck up one at a time to the grp. Should be easier than wrestling with a giant sheet of glue-covered vinyl.
Good luck, and you're right about the fumes, they will kill you without proper precautions (liver failure IIRC).
 
Yes once it starts to come down that is it. You will find that the foam backing (I assume we are talking about foam backed vinyl) has started to break down, eventually disintegrating to a powder.

Your choices are to replace like with like, replace with polypropylene carpet sold specifically for the purpose but that's even more expensive, or replace with much cheaper carpet from your local carpet shop. Its your choice.

Whatever, on the grp surfaces you will need a solvent based impact adhesive (the thixotropic kind is a bit easy to use IMHO) but a spray on adhesive is handy for the back of the lining itself, if foam backed anyway. The use of a solvent (toluene, aka dimethylbenzene) based adhesive means that good ventilation is absolutely vital, a good big fan all hatches open etc. It maybe that relining means removal of the windows, that helps considerably. In addition to ventillation I would very strongly advise the wearing of an "Organic vapours mask" they are good but their effectiveness is limited so ventillation is still vital. Remember that the toluene vapour is flammable so no sources of ignition!

If you care to put the headlining, or maybe it already is, on ply panels then for that part of the job a water resistant PVA wood glue can be used which being water based produces no harmful vapours. The absence of a solvent may even prolong the life of new material especially the foam backed stuff.

Hawke House Ltd, now in Gosport, are a good source of all the materials including adhesives and the masks. See their ad in PBO or http://www.hawkehouse.com If you buy from them you should be able to get a very useful hints and tips leaflet. They are by no means the only source but they are always mentioned when this topic crops up. I got all my stuff from them and I have never seen a bad word about them.

It's a big job and messy at times but to get it done professionally, I think you will find, is expensive. If you are normally a DIYer then give it a go but if you are not and have deep enough pockets get it done professionally.

Much has been said on here about it so a search or two should turn up loads to read. Since Hawke House is always mentioned a search for them should find it all.

BTW it is worth doing any jobs, like rebedding deck fittings, that can only be done with partial removal of the lining at the same time. In my case that included all new windows.
 
I'm faced with the same horrible problem. I suppose I'll have to glue new lining to the sharply curved sections directly. The horizontal, gently-curved areas were based on lining-covered, thin plywood and screwed to the lower surface of the balsa-cored sandwich with self-tappers. There, instead of using screws, I'm thinking of using that Velcro tape which sticks like the proberbial STAB. This would, I hope, make those sections of the lining relatively easily removable when necessary.
I'm not looking forward to it but, in the meantime, I'm making a door for the forecabin where the problem is more apparent!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
instead of using screws, I'm thinking of using that Velcro tape which sticks like the proberbial STAB

[/ QUOTE ] When I relined mine a few years ago I changed to headlining on ply panels. I fixed them up with screws with covered buttons on their heads at strategic positions and Velcro in between and along the edges. With Velcro the trick is to put two strips a cm or so apart on the roof and similar on the panels but at right angles to the ones on the roof. So that the 4 of them make a "hash" sign when put together. That avoids the need to accurately position them but gives 4 good areas of contact.
 
I have had this problem throughout my boat. The infamous Westerly droop. The deckhead on my boat is sandwich construction, balsa wood core between two sheets of glass fibre. I was able to hold the drooping vinyl up by screwing mahogony strips, one inch wide by quarter inch thick, up into the deckhead. I used five strips running the whole length of the cabin and it did the jub perfectly. In fact, it looks as though it was an orginal design. It was very easy to do, and no gluey mess.
 
Hi

I've done this job. Used the foam backed vinyl for the curved bits and made plywood panels for the flat bits. Took a long time but the result are spectacular! The panels are covered in the unbacked vinyl and attached to the boat with ss screws fitted into strips of ply cut and stuck to boat with epoxy. The foam backed stuff is stuck on using adhesives recommended by Hawke House. Their leaflet is excellent - ask for it when you order vinyl and adhesive from them.

Best tip ever for sticking the giant sheet of vinyl to roof when gravity is working against you, is as follows:

Find centre of vinyl, mark with a cross. Find centre of roof, mark with a cross. Glue a small section around the cross on the roof. Glue a corresponding small section around cross on the vinyl (if using glue that needs to be applied to both surfaces). Then offer up vinyl matching up crosses. You then hold it in position till it cures (doesn't take long) then leave the whole thing alone for a few hours till it is well and truly stuck. Then you can carry on glueing a section at a time out from the centre without worrying that the whole thing is going to fall down and get stuck somewhere you don't want it to be stuck.

You need a different technique for gluing the edges, but Hawke House will tell you all about that.

Oh, and use a roller to press it into position or your headlining will have all your fingerprints in it and look like it's got measles.

Bernie
 
Thanks for your response.

I like the idea of sticking panels to ply. The deckhead in the saloon (original) is mahogany faced ply with cut outs all over it which are filled over with non insulated fabric glued direct to thin ply panels and the mahogany faces varnished to give a lovely grid look.

The thought of making the forecabin conform to the same standard is quite interesting - and I could turn the forward hatch round at the same time. Hmmm thinks on how I could do this easily..... If only I could kneel for some time.....
 
[ QUOTE ]
(cut) I was able to hold the drooping vinyl up by screwing mahogony strips, one inch wide by quarter inch thick, up into the deckhead. I used five strips running the whole length of the cabin and it did the jub perfectly. In fact, it looks as though it was an orginal design. It was very easy to do, and no gluey mess.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can second Alan's experience. I got cheap D-section beading from a DIY store (carefully selected for straight grain) and found my "cheap & nasty temporary fix" produced a very smart & effective finish. 2 years on it still looks as though it's as designed. In many cases careful cutting of beading lengths allowed it to be simply clipped into place over the curtain rail, only in the tricky areas did I need small s/s screws into the inner G/F skin. I haven't even painted or treated the beading and it still looks good.
I highly recommend this quick fix, "Temporary solution" - I'm now expecting it to last another 30 years, like the original glueing! And it only took a day to do the whole boat (three cabins)
 
I have done this job as well. In my opinion, the secret is to spread impact adhesive on to the fibreglass, wait for it to become tacky, lay foam backed vinyl on to it, and it will stick, but not permanently. Pull back about 12" at a time of the vinyl and spray with spray adhesive. when you put the vinyl back in place it will grab never to be moved again. this technique worked very well for me.
 
The headlinings on my boat are drooping but are on a ply panel. At the carpet shop the other day I saw, and bought, some spray adhesive that they use for sticking down foam-back, carpet tiles etc. Sounds like it should do the job and at £5.99 was not a boat thing......
 
Remember, tiles usually go on to the floor. For a headlining you will have gravity working against you. In my experience that stuff will not do the job. The Hawke House supply Spray Tack or the even grippier stuff in the tin is more expensive but by golly it sticks!
 
Just beware : rotted headlining foam can also be quite toxic so put on the face mask for stripping it out as well.
As I only have a cheap boat I directly glue foambacked lining from Hawke House to the fibreglass.
I have used a 'gloss paint' roller to spread the glue on the fibreglass and the 'trade tack' glue sold by Hawke House to spray on the lining itself. Provided you get 100% coverage of both and dont stick the liner to yourself this will stay up for at least four years (the oldest replacements I did are about this old now) .
Beware cutting the foam immediately after sticking: the solvent leaking round the facemask can have a severe effect on your accuracy with a Stanley knife !!
 
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