Help locating a 20 meter live-aboard trawler / mobo.

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Due to a slowly-progressing health problem I know that our 45 years as 'raggies' is coming to an end - we possibly have a few years to change over but it's going to happen.

So, on a more positive note, we have started a 'slow search' for a live-aboard Mobo. I have owned, skippered, or lived aboard a few mob's previously including a Fleur-de Lys 70, Fl Sqadron 65 (twin 1350 cats) and have skippered a 65 knot race boat so we are not novices but all this was in the 80's / 90's and I am well out of touch.

Criteria;

Minimum 10 knot cruising speed (no backing down on this one).
Minumum 500 mile range at 10 knots (ditto).
18 - 22M (some compromise here).
Steel, aluminium or GRP all acceptable as is hard wood.

Must have, or be capable of taking 'domestic' sized accommodation - beds, galley equipment etc.
Must be 'walk-round' engine room.
Electronic engines considered but would ideally prefer basic units (turbo's are ok though).
Engines must either be excellent (no problems / low hours) or be considered scrap and priced accordingly.

A good hull is a must and older traditional 'classics' (e.g. Hatteras) would be considered.

Budget;

up to £500k 'ready to go' - much less if requiring work / re-engine etc.

What can you think of? There must be something of interest out there. Keep looking for me please.

Steve
 
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hi,

4 years ago I was after a similar boat search,
I finally ended with a 21yo 22m MY
here is a report from my search, just for inspiration
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?260592-Princess-or-Ferretti-what-boat-would-you-choose

looking back now, and I'm very happy with that choice,
even today I don't know what other boat I would choose.

the boat has old but good engines (imho)
and fully mechanical as your request,

only after 4 seasons I have a serious problem with one engine,
(look at my other active post at the moment)
but that can be adressed to not good enough maintenance.

Although I've alway's liked the trawler style boats, I'm very pleased that we have a full planing boat,
when we have detax fuel I run her 75% of the time at planing speed,(20kn)
in the period when we had full taks diesel, we used her a lot at displacement speed >80% of the time, at 10kn,
but also then I was gladd that I could go at planing speed every now and then, or when we had to get a time scedule

I don't take that opinion about better sea behavious for SD models,
we have retrofit stabs (zero speed) to the boat, and that is one of the best mods we did on her.

another advice I would like to give,
buy big enough !
especially for liveaboard, you can never have enough space
and secondly, you have the advantage of a longer hull = higher max displacement speed,

our boat feels like a large apartment near the sea,
I am 1,85m tall, and can stand right up in every cabin and every bathroom

gladd to give more info if you like
 
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Thanks Bart, I have already read the engine and your boat search threads end to end with great interest (unfortunately I read them in that order so I knew the ending!).

I hear and agree with everything that you say - do you have any rough calculations for range / consumption at displacement speed?
 
I've always had a soft spot for the French make Guy Couach ... they have 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22M which should fit into your price range....

Good engineering, well built and usually with a no nonsense fuel capacity.... I seem to recall that the 19M, carry 5,000L and the 22M carry 7,000L fuel as standard.
 
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Divemaster1 said:
I've always had a soft spot for the French make Guy Couach ... they have 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22M which should fit into your price range....

Good engineering, well built and usually with a no nonsense fuel capacity.... I seem to recall that the 19M, carry 5,000L and the 22M carry 7,000L fuel as standard.
Click to expand...

Thanks Alf, I'm glad that you joined in as I find myself in the position of "if it hasn't got a pair of DD's onboard I'm not interested" (different if we end up with a smaller FD/SD boat of course where JD's or similar would do fine). I have never forgotten watching the ice-breakers working to open up the St. Lawrence seaway so that John Deere could get there ore carriers to their smelting plant to make their own steel!
 
Divemaster1 said:
OK... here we go... this should match your requirements.... Some whopping V16 Jimmies and plenty of space... :D

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1989/Versilcraft-Challenger-77SP-2747940/Spain#.VDF-sphOXIU
Click to expand...

My daughter has just threatened never to leave the nest if I buy that! ;)

As an aside - I picked up on what you said about downrating just by changing the injector size and I've now done a little bit of reading on it (I get the exhaust valve set-up now) - would it be feasible to have a two-mode running set up do you think i.e. one set of regular injectors (fun set) and a downrated set for long-distance moves at DS? Would there be any point? How does that stack up with your comment that they don't tolerate slow speed running very well?

Steve
 
drumbeat said:
My daughter has just threatened never to leave the nest if I buy that! ;)

As an aside - I picked up on what you said about downrating just by changing the injector size and I've now done a little bit of reading on it (I get the exhaust valve set-up now) - would it be feasible to have a two-mode running set up do you think i.e. one set of regular injectors (fun set) and a downrated set for long-distance moves at DS? Would there be any point? How does that stack up with your comment that they don't tolerate slow speed running very well?

Steve
Click to expand...

So a serious option then :D ... after all it ticks most of the boxes .... and you never mentioned that you had a requirement for your daughter to leave the nest...

On the down rating side, remember that you still need to obtain the engine RPM, so that means changing props as well between the two modes.... probably not practical...

Much better to go for the run on single engine when in displacement mode only option.... 2 hr runs on each engine (Allison gearboxes can take that)... and run her at approx. 1200 RPM to get good combustion chamber heat... and you will not have any issues with low speed running .... problem with glazing etc., occurs when idle or low load (low temperatures) for prolonged periods.... a rough estimate would be that running on single engine at 1200 RPM will give good temperature and should give around displacement speed for a planning style hull with a 2100 - 2300 RPM rated twin DD installation... (think MBY did have an article a couple of months ago with a 20M MOBO with two DD's, that reached similar conclusion ...)
 
 
drumbeat said:
What do you think about these? (have a look at the ER in the first one)....................
Click to expand...

All your Hatts will have excellent engine rooms and will have very good engine installations .... and will have large accommodation. Key to look out for is 110V appliances (which at least the 70 has).

High hulls, large volume means high windage etc., ... and those beamy hulls mean more water resistance and higher fuel consumption at any speed.... Great living space though.... and please make preference to one stabilised.

Both have V12's ... one 71 other 92 series... main difference is dry versus wet liners ... share most other parts and good for serious hours both of them...
 
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drumbeat said:
What do you think about these? (have a look at the ER in the first one).

http://www.galatiyachts.com/used-hatteras-yachts-for-sale-from-60-to-70-feet.html/1994/HATTERAS/COCKPIT-MOTORYACHT/70-FT/STUART/FL/US/details-4778037#photos

and

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Motorboats/hatteras-60-ed/30282#oBK6y4kkQX8yOrvO.97
Click to expand...
drumbeat you didn't say where you will be cruising. IMHO both those Hatts will not work in the Med because they don't have an aft deck. You need an aft deck to eat/live when you're at anchor in a breeze. Both those boats were all about inside living not outside, which makes no sense in warm weather. But it depends where you're going to cruise

I thought the Hatt 70 engine room was pretty poor. You have to lean over the hot engines to reach the fuel filters and water maker. A water maker doesn't just switch on like a light. You need to twiddle the knobs and look at the dials, for a minute. You don't want to be leaning over a hot engine doing that

Thr versilcraft above looked much better to me. Has had a very expensive refit so has a good owner too. Likewise the Canados 72 series like Bart's has the right layout for med living- a decent aft deck

Just IMHO of course
 
jfm said:
I thought the Hatt 70 engine room was pretty poor. You have to lean over the hot engines to reach the fuel filters and water maker.
Click to expand...
I don't think so.
Actually, I can see why you are saying that, based on those pics alone, but knowing the Hatts a bit, I would be very surprised if you couldn't walk around in front of the engines and along their external side.
In fact, most boaters over the Pond would consider plainly unacceptable the e/r accessibility that most of us are used to live with.

Otoh, I fully agree with all your other thoughts.
Also on the Versilcraft, that looks quite a machine indeed. She's just missing some stabs, but I bet that she would be perfect for sticking a couple of fins on her bottom, à la BartW...
...which btw would fit nicely in drumbeat budget, with probably another 100k or so quids left for scattered cushions! :D
 
MapisM said:
I don't think so.
Actually, I can see why you are saying that, based on those pics alone, but knowing the Hatts a bit, I would be very surprised if you couldn't walk around in front of the engines and along their external side.
Click to expand...
If that's the case then all good. But I don't get that from the pics. Below is starboard engine I think. Watermaker pressure/flow gizmo (that you need to fiddle with) is in centre of picture, just to the right of the blue carbon filter which needs changing once a month or so. You surely cannot get round the front of the engine (left of picture) because it is up against the bulkhead and that big white curved box (=glendinning drum afaik) at left of picture would stop you. Aft is also tight and you have to get past the exhausts/sizzling outer turbo. I do not see from that picture that you have any space outboard of the engine anyway.
4778037_20140805100352911_4_LARGE.jpg


All academic though, if there is no aft deck. Stabilised Versilcraft sounds very attractive though!
 
Well, of course I can't be positive about this specific boat, but I've seen other Hatts where it was possible (and actually rather easy) to go round the front of the engine.
Just look, in the pic below, at the space on the floor between the steel tubes and the bulkhead: it seems just about as much as the distance between the port and stbd engines tubes.
I agree that the drum placement seems to obstruct the passage a bit, though.
At a guess, all those e/r pics were shot with a normal lens, rather than an ultra wide angle which is normally used in these cases, and this "squeezes" the spaces a bit, compared to other e/r pics we are used to see.
But yep, all academic anyway, if the OP is looking for a Med boat...
4778037_20140805100354291_1_LARGE.jpg
 
All points understood and gratefully received. I will order a broom handle to start the water maker. It is not a med specific boat - the intention is to pick an annual cruise area and do that each year. The Baltic is just as possible as the Med (which is why I started off at 10 knots cruising in the OP) - it's you lot who have convinced my daughter that I really need 3,500hp!
 
Haha, you know how the old saying goes... Horsepower is like sex, you can never get enough! :D
 
This is a bit of a left field choice but have a look at the Elegance 64. Elegance boats were built by a very large boatbuilder in Taiwan called Horizon Yachts for a German dealer called Drettman for many years until Drettman went bust a couple of years ago (the boats are still built by Horizon but marketed as Horizons now). Because they were mainly sold to German customers, Elegances were built like brick outhouses although a heavy degree of customisation was allowed by the builder so sometimes the style of the interior can be a bit questionable. We looked at two of these Elegance 64s last year and I was quite impressed by the engineering on these boats and the engine room was definitely more spacious and useable than the average 64ft planing boat. The accommodation is designed for Germans so there's plenty of headroom and space to spread out and the domestic equipment, at least on the boats we looked out, was of excellent quality. You could definitely live on one of these boats for extended periods. It is difficult to say whether the hull is an outright planing hull or semi displacement but the owners/dealers we spoke to said that they are designed to cruise at slower speeds ie around 10kts as well as 20kts+. Rumour has it that these are solid sea boats as well. Because Elegances were only sold in relatively small numbers, they're not as well known a brand as some others so whilst asking prices might be in line with the market, I'm told that selling prices are often well below so it may be possible to pick up a mid 2000's model in very good condition for within your budget
 
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