Help in chosing a liveabord boat

[rivonia]

Wrong!
Forget the idea of a sail boat, the correct motorboat is a lot less to run than you would imagine.
A single engine displacement or semi displacement motor boat will give you far more usable inside and outside space than an equivalent size sail boat. (50k will buy you a decent one)
Look to something like an Aquastar 33. It's like a small country cottage inside and is a good sea boat that will go anywhere.
The cost of fuel myth:-
1) sail boats spend a lot of time motoring. (So they are nothing more than a motor boat with auxillery flappy things and masts that take up huge amounts of your space)
2) If you travel at slow speed similar to a sail boat then you will burn a similar amount of fuel. (But you then also have the option if you want to get somewhere quick, burn extra fuel to do so)
3) the space in a hard top motor boat is far more light airy and usable than a sail boats cave.
4) the lower air draft of the correct MotorBiat will allow you to use the inland waterways, sail boat masts get in the way of bridges.

Note
We started living aboard an Aquastar 33 (370hp motor) the beginning of last year. It's plenty big enough for the two of us and room for occasional guests.
We Fuelled up in Alderney travelled up the channel to LeHavre, Up the Seine, through Paris, through the middle of France coming out into the Med at Port St Louis. (That burnt just under half a tank of fuel)
In the Med east to Marseille and Cassis, then west a couple of forays back into the inland waterways to Aigues Mortes etc, back into the Med West then South into the Spanish Med, down to Barcellona then back up port Roses just before the French border, refuel.. (That burnt just over half a tak of fuel) so in total in a year and a quarter, through not using excessive speed we burned a little over one tank of fuel.
Since then we continued North up the Med back into France then onto the Canal DuMidi and and currently at Toulouse (so about another quarter of a tank of fuel)

Please advice how many litres per hour you use at a cruising speed of 5knts. How many litres does your fuel tank hold. with a 370 HP engine it will drink fuel like no one business.. The average sail boot has a 20 to 30 HP engine and motors easily at 7 knts using 1.5 lters PH.

 

[RAI]

Just wonder why, if it is so attractive, so few people make this choice.

Many dream of sailing across the Atlantic or even around the world. That's a lot of fuel in a mobo. Feasible but maybe not as romantic.

 

[laika]

Just wonder why, if it is so attractive, so few people make this choice.

The average sail boot has a 20 to 30 HP engine and motors easily at 7 knts using 1.5 lters PH.

Much as I play for Team Sail I do agree with many of blampied's points. Here in Brighton there are a great many liveaboards on motorboats. You *do* generally get more accommodation per foot of length than in a sailing boat. And I recently discovered from talking to neighbours that low-revving displacement motorboats consume waaaay less fuel than I had assumed from the outrageous consumption stats of fast sports boats. My neighbour has a 50-ish year old boat with a massive ford lump which apparently drinks 6-ish litres an hour at 8-9 knots. My boat's modern 40HP yanmar is slightly more efficient than that but still consumes at least twice what rivonia is talking about.

I will however disagree with the assertion that most sailing boats spend most of their time motoring. This one certainly doesn't. I suppose it depends on who you are, where you go and the reliability of the wind in your area.

Note also that buying a motorboat wouldn't be an impediment to learning to sail: most people learn on other people's (or a sailing school's) boat anyway. As V1701 said, you don't know what you want (nor can anyone tell you) until you've bought at least one boat.

Err...not of course that I'd *personally* want a motorboat but I think it's a valid option.

 

[RAI]

Err...not of course that I'd *personally* want a motorboat but I think it's a valid option.

Quite right too. When cranking a winch gets to be a chore; time to mobo.

 

[lindsay]

Quite right too. When cranking a winch gets to be a chore; time to mobo.

There is of course another option. When you find yourself getting weaker, do what is necessary to make yourself stronger.......and continue sailing.

 

[RAI]

There is of course another option. When you find yourself getting weaker, do what is necessary to make yourself stronger.......and continue sailing.

No, No. Getting weaker is solved with electricity. Getting bored is cured by a new toy.

 

[jerrytug]

Advice from Webb Chiled, US navigator who knows a thing or two. Now on sixth circumnavigation at 73, on choosing a sailboat.

Quote

There are really only three things to consider.

1. It should be fun to sail

2. It should hold together

3. It should LOOK GOOD when you are rowing away from it at an anchorage

All the rest is just harbour talk.

Unquote

Good luck!

+100%!
You've got to love the boat, whether it's a stink-pot or a blowjob.
By the way, I've lived on both and second the comments about barges etc for exploring Europe, cheers Jerry

 

[blampied]

Out of interest how big is the tank? Also what is your cruising speed and how many litres an hour does she use at that speed. Genuinely interested - thanks

Retired and living on a budget.
300 gal fuel tank.
At river speed 4 knots the fuel flow meter is showing arround 2 litres per hour
Most sea journies we keep arround displacement speed, 7 knots is about 10 litres per hour
I'm aware of the possibility of glazing so at least once an hour give it a few minutes blast
Some sea trips at 10 knots about 35 litres per hour.
And a very occasional blasts to 20knots outrunning weather fronts etc costs us dearly at about 90 litres an hour
(its about 90, gauge only goes up to 80 and it hits that before full throttle)
Speed costs money,

 

[blampied]

Please advice how many litres per hour you use at a cruising speed of 5knts. How many litres does your fuel tank hold. with a 370 HP engine it will drink fuel like no one business.. The average sail boot has a 20 to 30 HP engine and motors easily at 7 knts using 1.5 lters PH.

Hi
About 4 ltrs per hour at 5 knots and about 10 ltrs per hour at 7 knots.
Which is no doubt slightly more than a sail boat
However with a sail boat you have two propulsion systems to maintain,
the motor and sails mast and rigging, all of which need regular maintenance and very costly replacement.
The sail boat for the same liveaboard internal space will need to be 25% longer, vastly increasing mooring/Marina fees.
A sensible displacement motor boat also gives you access to cheaper shallower waters mornings harbours and rivers.
For example here in the west end of the Med, Marina prices day rate tend to range from €20 to 40 for 33ft boat, during July & Aug That can exceed €100. Unless your die hard must anchor out at every opportunity sail boater, slipping into somewhere like the Canal du Midi where there are plenty of free (without power) or low cost €4 to 6 a night moorings is a god send. (True sail boats can have the mast taken down at a coat but then the keel stops many getting alongside the bank)

Keeping to displacement speed I may burn a bit more fuel but that cost is more than saved time and time again by not having the other expenses

 

[laika]

About 4 ltrs per hour at 5 knots and about 10 ltrs per hour at 7 knots.
Which is no doubt slightly more than a sail boat

Actually more than double the 40HP in my 12m boat @7 knots

However with a sail boat you have two propulsion systems to maintain,
the motor and sails mast and rigging, all of which need regular maintenance and very costly replacement.

As previously stated I agree with you about space per metre of length but I'd argue that having two completely independent propulsion systems, one of which won't fail if your fuel is contaminated and will never utterly run out of juice no matter how far you go is a pretty good thing. Rigging replacement is no more than once every 10 years. Sails? Well depends on your inclination towards racing. I budget ~1k pa for rigging and sails (although it comes in 2 big hits per decade). I reckon we save that in fuel. Plus we have the insurance factor of not having to rely on an engine. And for a mechanical numbskull like myself the sails are an awful lot less maintenance than the engine.

Again, it comes down to how and where you use your boat. Having googled the Aquastar 33 it looks a lovely vessel for what you're doing but I'd prefer mine for heading to the south pacific.

 

[jordanbasset]

Retired and living on a budget.
300 gal fuel tank.
At river speed 4 knots the fuel flow meter is showing arround 2 litres per hour
Most sea journies we keep arround displacement speed, 7 knots is about 10 litres per hour
I'm aware of the possibility of glazing so at least once an hour give it a few minutes blast
Some sea trips at 10 knots about 35 litres per hour.
And a very occasional blasts to 20knots outrunning weather fronts etc costs us dearly at about 90 litres an hour
(its about 90, gauge only goes up to 80 and it hits that before full throttle)
Speed costs money,

Thank you, appreciate the info

 

[wazza]

A fantastic debate and I've read through all of the replies, all of which are of course valid.. The fact that you've said your budget in € means to me that you're not in the UK or Scandinavia. So where are you going to live aboard.? That price is extremely different depending on the country.
Blampied comes with a very good argument if you with to cruise around the Med, but not if you want to cross the Atlantic.
Is the primary to live on it or travel.? I bought my boat with the idea of leaving the cold waters of the north and sail South, not done it yet but the plan is still in place.
With regard to living quarters, personally I think a sailboat is more cosy than a mobo, having had both. But all this is personal preference.
So my advice to you would be,make a plan and then go and see many different types of both motor and sailboats, change your plan and keep doing it until you find what's right for YOU... As it's all a case of personal preference...
Good luck..

 

[blampied]

A fantastic debate and I've read through all of the replies, all of which are of course valid.. The fact that you've said your budget in € means to me that you're not in the UK or Scandinavia. So where are you going to live aboard.? That price is extremely different depending on the country.
Blampied comes with a very good argument if you with to cruise around the Med, but not if you want to cross the Atlantic.
Is the primary to live on it or travel.? I bought my boat with the idea of leaving the cold waters of the north and sail South, not done it yet but the plan is still in place.
With regard to living quarters, personally I think a sailboat is more cosy than a mobo, having had both. But all this is personal preference.
So my advice to you would be,make a plan and then go and see many different types of both motor and sailboats, change your plan and keep doing it until you find what's right for YOU... As it's all a case of personal preference...
Good luck..

Totally agree it's horses (boats) for courses!
where you want to use the boat?
If you intend to travel with it?
And how far you want to go?
How much experience you have and intend to get.

I totally agree my motor boat would be unable to cross the Atlantic.
But going across the Med to Greece would easily be possible however a sailing boat for that distance would probabally be a better option.

 

[dmaher2007]

Again, thank you all for the information, Its a really great community in here and some really sound advice. The primary function is for myself to live on, as you know i have NO experience at sailing what so ever, but if I do decide to buy a sail boat, learning to sail would be something I'd have to do and a challenge in its self. The one thing I think most people seem to have in common, and have said is, look, look, and look again, and be per paired to change plans as I go. Cheers to all for the help.

 

[wazza]

Don't let not being able to sail put you off a sailing boat as I couldn't sail when I first bought mine, albeit a 27 footer. Courses I'm sure are good. But I enjoyed learning through doing. BUT I'd like to point out that I went out when then weather was calm to play.
Read books, or nowadays go on YouTube, you can find anything on there..