Helm Pump issues and advice please

[DrGonzoMIA]

Hi all,

After an torrid time sorting engine issues. It now seems I have steering issues to sort before I can go anywhere.

Boat has a hydraulic system. Helm pump is a now obsolete (so I hear?) Styllen Teleflex that is apparently a closed unit and not serviceable. There is plenty of fluid I'm the reservoir but the ship wheel just spins and spins without engaging any hydraulic action and moving the piston connected to the rudder.
I read that seastar bought out Styllen many years ago and that I need a certain seastar helm pump to replace.
I gather that the helm pumps have to be a certain spec for a swap out ? And that you can't just buy whichever brand and install as it doesn't work that way ?
Is there anything I can try before I go down a new pump route ? And are there any others that Seastar brand that could be used ?

Thankyou.

 

[colhel]

I can see why the pump cylinder capacity has to match the cylinder capacity on your rudder ram, but I can't see why you can't use another brand.
Hopefully some more knowledgeable folk will step in.

 

[scottie]

As I understand it basically you can use any make of pump with any ram and throw in an autopilot as well as long as the ram can handle the load unless there is anything valvewise to say otherwise or fluid conflicts

 

[vas]

agree with previous posters, maybe adding a few pics of the helm pump would help identify/suggest.
typically there's two hard copper (?) pipes from helm to ram. One pushes one way, the other opposite. There's also a vent/overflow/whatever it's called flex pipe (no pressure on it) returning fluid back to helm. if the cc of the capacity/flowrate of the helm pump matches the size of the ram, anything should work. If flowrate lower, you got to turn the wheel many times if higher steering too heavy and too few turns.

 

[DrGonzoMIA]

This is current one. Not much to see really. And as mentioned this particular type does not seem to be serviceble. So if the internals are knackered then that's that ? I think it's 1.7 cubic something or other which is the same as the seastar one. So I guess if I get the specs of the seastar unit I can use that to source another ? Cheers

 

[simonfraser]

take the wheel off and check the shaft is actually turning ?

 

[DrGonzoMIA]

I shall !

 

[DrGonzoMIA]

Just checked. Shaft is deffo turning!

 

[Bran]

Could be one of the valves inside the helm pump sticking. Try moving the rudder or actuating cylinder, give it some hard sharp movements if you can, might just free one of the valves.

 

[vas]

what oil has it got? I guess you can see the level from the filling cap, right?

 

[DrGonzoMIA]

Yeah took filling cap on pump off and oil is correct level. Don't know of its ever been changed ?! Probably not...

 

[vas]

More Qs:
A. can you shine a light on the filling cap while someone is turning the wheel sharply? Can you see disruption on the surface of the oil? bubbles, ripples, anything.
B. Does it feel like it's actually doing anything? I mean is it turning too easily (ok, that's fairly subjective I agree...)
C. Can you turn the wheel to any direction for ever? like 20turns, still same resistance and turning happily or it seems like it's locking somewhere? Both sides same feel?
D. Assuming boat on the hard, can you force turn the rudder either way without touching the helm?

You could also undo (a bit) the fitting on one side at the ram. Turn the wheel, get some rugs under there and see if any ATF fluid is coming out.
If it does when turning, it could actually be a broken/locked/damaged/seized ram that lets fluid go pass the ram either way, so helm pump is fine, the ram is to blame.
So do some more testing before you start replacing bits of (expensive) kit.

final Q, is it single helm craft or not? if not, there may be a bypass/emergency valve that when undone lets fluid move freely from one side of the pump to the other without going down to the ram. If you can, try to examine the route of the pipes from helm to ram.

V.

 

[DrGonzoMIA]

You my friend, are legendary....
So part of me didn't want to post this as its quite embarrassing that I've spent the last two days scratching my head and scouring the Internet. However I feel I must share as it will hopefully help some other hopeless fool such as myself one day. I blame sheer lack of knowledge on anything hydraulic... But here is what appears to be the culprit. I did some digging around at the back of the boat, under the ram section. There I found a ball valve. Which in anything I have ever used - a ball valve is functioning when the lever is in line with the valve. But no,no,no. You sir / madam are entirely correct. This needs to be in the off position to prevent the oil from just looping around the system unrestricted. The steering is now working ! Thankyou ! You need to have arms like popeye to turn it. But it's working !

 

[Mr Googler]

You my friend, are legendary....
So part of me didn't want to post this as its quite embarrassing that I've spent the last two days scratching my head and scouring the Internet. However I feel I must share as it will hopefully help some other hopeless fool such as myself one day. I blame sheer lack of knowledge on anything hydraulic... But here is what appears to be the culprit. I did some digging around at the back of the boat, under the ram section. There I found a ball valve. Which in anything I have ever used - a ball valve is functioning when the lever is in line with the valve. But no,no,no. You sir / madam are entirely correct. This needs to be in the off position to prevent the oil from just looping around the system unrestricted. The steering is now working ! Thankyou ! You need to have arms like popeye to turn it. But it's working !

That’s a novel anti theft device! ???

 

[vas]

Glad you sorted it!
Now if you look on the aft deck just on top of the rudder stock, you should be able to find a most likely bronze fitting.
The idea is that if hydraulics fail, you open the valve, you remove the fitting and slide down an emergency tiller and steer the boat manually
V.

 

[DrGonzoMIA]

That makes sense. Thanks again. ?

 

[simonfraser]

LOL so who moved the valve in the first place ?
or is this boat new to you ??

 

[DrGonzoMIA]

I bought it last year and have hard to sort a few bits to get it ready to roll. It's the first time I was ready to go on the weekend so it's all never been tested. I didn't even know this valve was here until yesterday so it's either been knocked or previous owner left it like that ? Who knows...