Hello and help with a trailer-sailer :o)

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JerseyDevil

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Hi,

I'm fairly new to the world of sailing however we enjoyed our first "beginners" sail a couple of months back and having enjoyed several further outings are looking to purchase a "trailer-sailer" as it seems to tick the boxes (ie can dry store it at the home, can work on the boat out of water easiler, no need for moorings all year round, easy to manage with 2 of us etc).

We're ideally looking for something around the 20ft mark (as this gives us the correct balance between comfort and storing space), the Potter19 has caught our eye however we're wondering if anyone had experience of this or any alternative suggestions?

For the short term, we'd use it as a coastal sailer whilst completing the RYA courses, however would a boat of this size be capable of a channel crossing should we have an interest in that? (e.g Solent to Cherbourg, Caen, Brittany etc) The channel crossing ability is not vital, just a nice bonus if it could!

As I say, although we've had some experience of sailing we're very much novices when it comes to types of sailing boat and their capabilities so your advice and help would be much appreciated :o)

Regards

JerseyDevil

P.S JerseyDevil comes from the Ice Hockey team in New Jersey, not that we're from Jersey! ;)
 
Wot! has no one welcomed you yet!! Welcome.
I dont know the Potter but have seen some decent comments. I've just downsized to a trailer sailer. I settled for a Leisure 20as my size range was 19 to 23 feet.
I looked at several boats in this size range. some had low seated head room others were quite grotty. In the end we settled for the boat that ticked all our boxes and where we read no serious bad reports.
If the Potter looks ok then go for it if theprice is right, you can always change it once your requirements harden with experience.
The Potter will certainly cross the channel safely but only given a good forcast an experienced crew and if the boat is properly equiped.
Personally if I was considering coastal cruising as you described then I would prefer something around 25 feet min but you will form your own opinions with experience.
Good luck
 
Hi You Devil you!

Trail sailing is a bit different in that you decide how much you want to spend on a tow vehicle before you choose a boat. I wanted to stick to one car so I picked a boat that could be towed by my Peugeot 406 estate. Some folk want a bigger heavier boat and accept that they will have to run a 4x4 to do it. I'm limited to about 19 feet or a light 20 footer, no bigger.
The Potter weighs 1850 Lbs on the trailer, which looks OK for a large family car, but you have to be carefull, as soon as you put a sleeping bag or a spoon aboard the weight starts to pile on.
There are loads of things to consider before deciding, weight is only one.
 
If you don't mind an older boat then the Corribee has an impressive track record of adventurous sailing. Coastal sailing and cross channel would be no problem but most are getting a bit long in the tooth now.

If you want something more modern, the Jenneau first 211 always looked like a good compromise to me though I've been on one.
 
Thanks for the welcomes :)

We were planning to use a 2.0l Subaru Impreza which has a towing capacity of 1600kg (3,500ish lbs), so I assume that would be ok for towing a Potter 19 as it weighs approx. 986kg including the trailer and boat?

Luckily my parents have a Land Rover Discovery so I am sure they'd let me borrow that beast for a few days! :D I don't think my Mini would have much luck moving it! :p

The Leisure 20 again looks similar to what we're after, and with regards to a larger length, I am guessing that a longer boat offers more stabilty at sea?

Thanks again for the help :-)
 
Hunter Marine (USA) Legend 235. Loved it. Smashing sailer, large open-plan interior, excellently large cockpit in which you can easily entertain 6 and sail at the same time. Easy to have all lines lead aft as side decks a tad twitchy for going f'ard in a blow. No rear stay to get in the way of angling, easily used swim ladder and walk thru' transom. About £8k now I should think and very worth while.

Custom trailer certainly on the down side; unbraked, two wheel, one axle....it needs brakes and two axles. Other downside is that the drop keel arrangement is glassed in and un-maintainable so if your previous owner had the boat on a mud berth, and the boat rocked side to side as it settled, the pivot bolt (admittedly some one inch diameter steel and pretty hardy) could wear the GRP molding it goes through. Light weight bow cleat, no midship spring cleats.

But 5 knots plus in a blow, and entirely enjoyable. I would have another but would want a heads, the later editions have a fixed wing keel which would solve the longetivy problem. Good luck.
 
We look back on our trailer sailer years (2002/3/4) with huge affection. We derrived huge satisfaction from the opportunity to sail at different locations and mix it with proper yachts for a fraction of what we spend today. Here's a few things we learnt along the way ....

1. Trailer Sailer or Trailable Yacht? If you are looking to keep your boat at home and tow to various locations throughout the year (as we did) you may be better off with a lifting keel and a displacement of less than 750Kg. If you are only towing, launching and recovering once or twice a year, it may be worth the struggle to get a more sea worthy little yacht with fixed keels and better accomadation.

2. Do eveything you can to minimise equipment and simplify set up / tear down. Avoid putting yourself under time pressure to launch and recover.

3. The most important part of a trailer sailer is the trailer! A bad trailer will cause you loads of hassle and stress ... not something I look for when I am trying to recover from lots of hassle and stress during the week!

4. Don't underestimate the cost (and weight) of sailing equipment. You need the same equipment as any other yacht + spares for the trailer + a new set of charts and pilot books for every new location.

5. Choose shallow slipways and launch and recover with a long rope between the car and the trailer. try to avoid cross winds and currents!

Ultimately, our 18 footer was very hard work for a weekend away, and a bit too small for 1 and 2 week holidays ... the sailing weather window is also narrower than for a heavier displacment yacht. I wish we had tried a season on a cheap harbour authority mooring
before moving on. Buy wisely, because you probably will move on after a couple of seasons with aspirations to cross the channel!
 
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trailer Sailer

I have had my trailer sailer for 30 years and still love it. Plus side of it is that it has a vertically lifting keel with not keel extending under the hull so it floats in very shallow water and is easy to launch and recover.
One of the compromises with a T/S is that the boat must be light as possible with min ballast. Mine is definitely self righting. Tested many times. However it tends to lack the punch when sailing into a choppy or rough water. I am sure the boat would go anywhere and survive anything but I don't think the crew could cope for too lo0ng with the lively motion. At least I couldn't.
Mine is 21ft with near 27ft mast but this is quite easily managed.
Sitting head room has been mentioned and is critical to me. Also access to the front vee berth area ( having a centre board case and 2x mast support posts mine is poor ).
Don't look for a boat with elaborate furniture. IMHO a small boat should simply have bunk seats from quartter berth continuous right through to vee berth. This gives an open feeling inside.
Despite relative ease of launch and recovery it is still a pain for an afternoons sail. So I like many others have a swing mooring and dinghy.
Good luck olewill
If you get into a club and get into regular racing this can sharpen your skills but also gives you an incentive to do it. It is all too easy to leave the boat in the driveway and not go sailing.
 
I agree with what fastjedi said.

With the First 18 I got round the reluctance to set off just for the W/E by having a mooring fairly close to home for weekends but having a couple of trips away for a cruise each year. We trailed to the Broads, Clyde and Loch Lomond but should have tried more on the south coast.

With a Scooby I would stay below 20 feet, boats never weigh what it says in the book.

The Disco would make it more reasonable to have a trailerable yacht but it's going to be half a day from arriving in the car park to sailing away and vice versa, longer the first time you do it, so you want at least a long W/E preferably a week or two.

The Trail Sail Association is a good source info http://homepages.rya-online.net/trail-sail/index.html
 
Anderson 22.
It has a lift keel, so much easier to launch and recover than a bilge-keeler. Wins races around the cans, and has an enviable offshore record to boot (transatlantics etc.), so cross-channel no problem, even in baad weather.
£4,000 should get a decent one, plus trailer. Not as much room inside as a leisure 20 (they are like a tardis), but it sails like a racer (hull design is derived from the Ajax 23), and not like a police box. Other boats derived from the same hull are Achilles 24 (I have one of these, but only because I couldn't find an Anderson 22 when I was looking), and the Hunter 701 (British Hunter). All of these boats have both round-the-cans racing and offshore records. The Achilles 24 was not available as lift keel, so not really suitable for trailer-sailing, But a lot of the Hunter 701's were lift keel. All of these boats have approx 50% ballast ratio, with an iron bulb low down on the keel, so they are not tender like most lift-keel boats.
The Seal 22 shares most of the characteristics of the above.
A friend of mine had a leisure 20 bilge-keeler, on which I sailed quite a bit. Sailing upwind was not even an option really.
 
We had a Matilda 20 for a couple of years and very much enjoyed it, however we found that it was too much hard work to tow down on Friday night, launch, sail, pull out Sunday and drive home - by the end of that we were exhausted. The last year we got a mooring and only slipped her when we fancied a new area for a weeks sailing.

We towed it with a 2 litre diesel - which was no problem on the road. The main problem was traction on the splipway (even using a rope), and that first gear was not low enough to be able to pull her up the slip at a controlled speed without slipping the clutch. Hence the need for a landrover type - or many people have a removeable towbar on the front of the car, as reverse is a lower gear than 1st.

Loads of good advice on the Trail sail association website http://www.trail-sail.org.uk/
and if you join they've a good forum for advice, meetings etc and they are always keen to help a new sailor.

Overall it's great fun, hope you enjoy it.


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Edit

Sorry - didn't notice aquaplane suggested the same website !
 
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Thanks again everyone, the help is much appreciated and we'll get signed up to the club you recommended :-)

Only problem is my girlfriend......I'll give you an example.

Camping :

We wanted a small 2 man tent to go camping and be mobile while holidaying in France with bare essentials for cooking.

What we ended up with - an 8 man tent, a cooking table with space for a kettle, 2 x gas stoves, 1 x grill.....

I think we'll end up with something the size of a Nimitz-class carrier when she has finished her "must haves" :rolleyes: :D


But joking aside, she really fancies the idea and so far she is like the look of the Hunter 235, but with a couple of months to go it gives us chance to have a good look around the boats you've all recommended.

Again, thanks for the help :-)
 
Trail-sail

It looks as though this discussion is at an end but if anyone knows whether the trail-sail association is still active could they update me. There have been no newsletters - nor activity on the website - for some time.

On the subject of choosing a boat to trail the truly unsinkable Etap range are popular with many long term trail-sailers. I have an Etap 20 which is the smallest in the range and tows easily behind a Honda CRV 2.2 diesel. All of the Etap manuals are still available on-line. However, what no one tells you at the start is that you need to know your trailer if you are to have a stress-free launch. Each year I make small adjustments and have still not got it quite right. Perhaps this year I'll make a better fist of it.
 
Trail Sail Association update

The TSA is still active.
The website was updated last week.
Newsletters are still sent out, the last one was just before Easter 2010.
The TSA only costs £6.00 a year and provides a valuable list of contacts around the country.
The circulation list was checked last year and the names of members who had not paid their subscriptions were removed to save printing and postage costs.
The magazine has not been as frequent as in previous years partly due to there being a members internet system.
I have found the members to be friendly and helpful.
 
Thanks for letting me know. I have provided articles for the newsletter in the past which used to be the alternative to the £6 sub so that is probably why I have been dropped off the list.
 
Thanks agian, I've done a little reading and the words "Etap" and "unsinkable" have cropped up a few times! (Probably be a good thing as beginners :o )

Thanks again for all of your help, it's much appreciated :-)
 
There are lots of excellent trailer sailers, and the first think that dicates what you get is your budget. Then its a matter of ease of handling on and off the trailer, and whether your priority is a boat that has good sailing capabilities or errs towards the more spacious, but with perhaps less ability to windward.

Mines a Dehler 22, which is at the performance end of the spectrum rather than the accomodation end, but having said that its perfectly adequate for two, and can sleep four in full length bunks, but it would be pretty crowded.

I'd still love a Parker 235 if i could afford one. To me thats one of the nicest trailer sailers ever made, and it is great to sail. I still havn't got over Parkers going out of business last year.

The only real advice I'd give is buy the very best one you can afford in terms of it being well looked after, and don't buy one that needs lots of work doing on it. Go and see as many as you can and take your digi camera.

Good luck and good sailing.

Tim
 
I think for us, ease of sailing and comfort is a bit more important than speed (for the moment!Kind of like a first car I guess where a 20hp Fiat Panda feels like a Ferrari :D).

So stability and room below deck would take priority whilst we get used to sailing :).
 
I second what Aquaplane said about car. Start with what vehicle you are going to be towing with. Check its towing capacity, you are probably better off not working at the maximum the vehicle is rated for. The quoted weights of boat and trailers are often wrong and the weight could be much higher 250Kgs in my case which meant I had to change my vehicle and run a large 4x4.
 
davidpbo said:
I second what Aquaplane said about car. Start with what vehicle you are going to be towing with. Check its towing capacity, you are probably better off not working at the maximum the vehicle is rated for. The quoted weights of boat and trailers are often wrong and the weight could be much higher 250Kgs in my case which meant I had to change my vehicle and run a large 4x4.
Click to expand...

I had to do the same. 3 litres of front wheel drive car towed just fine, but slipways brought home the probability of owning a boat and the first Alfa Romeo submarine, so I got a 4x4 instead which makes it a doddle by comparison.

Tim
 
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