CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
Yes but i suspect the Freeman didnt have 2x150hp petrols under the floor gobbling petrol at an alarming rate.
Hello and advice needed please
- Thread starter ras8963
- Start date
Yes but i suspect the Freeman didnt have 2x150hp petrols under the floor gobbling petrol at an alarming rate.
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
I'd agree with all that but considering it will be Thames based its really not a big problem, going to Sea is unlikely for a first timer in their first year and for 20 year old boat the value will have levelled off so he shouldn't loose anything if he buys wisely.
Also twin 4 cylinder diesels on the river are not the smoothest, noisey smokey and vibratory, the 151's in particualr are very smooth and quiet and this does add to the enjoyment.
Gavi
Well-Known Member
Good point!
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
We were always under the illusion of petrols being quiter than diesels until we ventured out on a friends Sea Ray that has twin petrols. It was certainly no quieter than our diesel, although our diesel is a fair bit more modern than the ones the OP is looking at. My advice would be to have a river trial in them both and make up your own mind. Personally i wouldnt touch a petrol engine in a boat and certainly not one that is 20 years old having seen the hassle our firends have had with theirs.
Its a good job they have two engines so they can still use their boat when one is broken. They have just spent £2.5k on a new ECU after running on one engine for 4 months over the summer. Now that engine is working the other one is playing up and the outdrives have started to grumble.
It really is worth checking how well maintained a boat is before biting the bullet and purchasing. We fell lucky with our Sealine as it had been very well maintained from new. It is sometimes worth paying that bit extra for a better looked after example.
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
You may be surprised, those little 4 cylinder Volvos only use 1gph on the river between them, in fact I've yet to come across any boat that uses more than this on the Thames regardless of the engines fitted, provided you keep to the speed limit of course. The one exception is twin V8 petrols which seem to use 2gph just to stand still idling
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
I'm only refering to twins your single will be fine, but put 2 in there and they start to try and shake the boat to bits.
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
You may be surprised, those little 4 cylinder Volvos only use 1gph on the river between them, in fact I've yet to come across any boat that uses more than this on the Thames regardless of the engines fitted, provided you keep to the speed limit of course. The one exception is twin V8 petrols which seem to use 2gph just to stand still idling
I struggle to believe that fuel consumption. On a recent trip to York with said Sea Ray we went the canal route as they only had one engine running at the time. We used £80 worth of diesel for the trip and averaged about 4 litres per hour. Said Sea Ray on one engine used £300 worth of petrol and averaged 7.5 litres per hour, on one engine. Either something is very wrong with his engine or your fuel figures are a little off!!
At 1 gph for both engines that would equate to 2.25 litres per hour per engine. Our diesel on average uses 4 litres per hour at river speeds i struggle to believe a 4cylinder petrol engine is almost twice as economical as a 4 cylinder diesel of similar size.
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
I speak from experience, but you have to cruise at the right speed, i.e about 4.5knts, do 5.5 or 6knts and consumption will double in a small boat.
I'm guessing your friends Searay has V6's or V8's and yes they gobble it regardless. The only viable twin petrol option is small 4 cylinder petrols, anything else forget it.
TrueBlue
Well-Known Member
I'm going to stick my neck out here -
as I'm not a petrol expert, but
Don't underestimate the inconvenience of getting petrol - unless your home marina supplies it. MDL does, then there's nothing until a small supplier (not Kingcraft) at Abingdon.
There have bee some serious (total loss) fires in recent years and most of them have occurred while refuelling with petrol. It's insidious, and only takes one less than careful filling to cause a disaster.
Disregarding the negatives about petrol, the clincher for me is that lower powered (at least) diesels are low tech - without ECUs or ignition issues which there can be with petrol engines.
A diesel will run happily at low engine revs for hours, whereas petrol engines are intended to run at higher revs: as they would in a car.
That's why diesel boats command a higher price - not because the engines were more expensive (were they??) from new but more because other folks have worked out that for this type of use a diesel is more
Stump up the extra, you know it makes sense; you'll get it back when you sell the boat on, or if you keep the vessel for any time you'll get it back in lower running costs anyway.
as I'm not a petrol expert, but
Don't underestimate the inconvenience of getting petrol - unless your home marina supplies it. MDL does, then there's nothing until a small supplier (not Kingcraft) at Abingdon.
There have bee some serious (total loss) fires in recent years and most of them have occurred while refuelling with petrol. It's insidious, and only takes one less than careful filling to cause a disaster.
Disregarding the negatives about petrol, the clincher for me is that lower powered (at least) diesels are low tech - without ECUs or ignition issues which there can be with petrol engines.
A diesel will run happily at low engine revs for hours, whereas petrol engines are intended to run at higher revs: as they would in a car.
That's why diesel boats command a higher price - not because the engines were more expensive (were they??) from new but more because other folks have worked out that for this type of use a diesel is more
- cost effective,
- reliable,
- practical.
Stump up the extra, you know it makes sense; you'll get it back when you sell the boat on, or if you keep the vessel for any time you'll get it back in lower running costs anyway.
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
The petrol diesel debate can go on and on, and if you can afford that extra 5K then go diesel. However if the OP is tight on budget and is just going to potter up and down the river, petrol is doable and cheap enough.
I used to own a 25ft petrol powered sports cruiser, did the Thames from Lechlade to the Sea many times, also the Grand union and K & A and it was light enough to trial down to the Solent occasionaly as well for the odd 30knt blast, i'd say actualy almost the perfect boat for all around ability.
Having said all that I now have diesel which is the only option for serious cruising, especialy if you want to go to sea.
azman
Well-Known Member
Bloomin' heck
My SM 27 powered by her trusty Ford XLD, uses approx 1.5 litres an hour at river speeds. If I try really hard I can make her use 3 litres. my last holiday I got 9 days (180 miles) boating in, using less than 100 litres of fuel.
Fuel and oil filters cost me a few quid a pop, and I can pull 70 foot narrowboats about.
I must be doing something wrong
My SM 27 powered by her trusty Ford XLD, uses approx 1.5 litres an hour at river speeds. If I try really hard I can make her use 3 litres. my last holiday I got 9 days (180 miles) boating in, using less than 100 litres of fuel.
Fuel and oil filters cost me a few quid a pop, and I can pull 70 foot narrowboats about.
I must be doing something wrong
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
Your trusty old Seamaster isnt sporting two 150hp petrol engines though. That is where the difference lies with your boat and the one the OP is considering.
Your trusty old Seamaster aint got a 170hp diesel engine singing away in the engine bay either
Our last holiday to York of 9 days we used £80 of diesel (106 litres at 75ppl) and 172 miles (had to go the long way around both ways
) so isnt that much worse than your consumption at 0.6 litres per mile. We just did more miles epr hour than you did thats allAndrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Surely grounds there for some careful replumbing of the heads to supply your own biofuel?
ras8963
New Member
ras8963
New Member
Thank you
sorry to have opened up old debates here guys but to a novice like me it makes excellent reading, may I buy each of you a cyber beer!!
I may have mentioned that each boat is at both extremes of our budget, if that makes sense, happy with the cheaper one less happy but can (just about) afford the pore expensive diesel one.
Also wifey and I do indeed plan to spend the next year or so simply using here for jaunts up and down the thames.
I am getting from the advice that the petrol one will at least suit our needs in this regard, is reasonably economic in that environment and that the engines should be, if maintained, reliable.
Any more "waves" of opinion or debate on the subject are greatly recieved..cheers guys.
sorry to have opened up old debates here guys but to a novice like me it makes excellent reading, may I buy each of you a cyber beer!!
I may have mentioned that each boat is at both extremes of our budget, if that makes sense, happy with the cheaper one less happy but can (just about) afford the pore expensive diesel one.
Also wifey and I do indeed plan to spend the next year or so simply using here for jaunts up and down the thames.
I am getting from the advice that the petrol one will at least suit our needs in this regard, is reasonably economic in that environment and that the engines should be, if maintained, reliable.
Any more "waves" of opinion or debate on the subject are greatly recieved..cheers guys.
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
Well you would have to get used to the overwelming stench of petrol every time you board the boat, the fact you are sleeping on top of 500 or so litres of a highly flammable substance and the regular emptying of your wallet, but other than that it sounds like your mind is made up
I still suggest you have a trial on them both and maybe keep looking around thames brokerage yards for boats more suited to the river environment. There are a great many sea boats kept inland (ours included) and it is a crying shame that the vast majority will never see the sea again. If you intend to stick to river cruising maybe a boat designed for river cruising would be better. There are still ones that look relatively sporty avaliable that would do the trick and be much more suited to your needs. If you still feel the need for a sea boat at some stage you can sell the river cruiser and buy another boat.
I still suggest you have a trial on them both and maybe keep looking around thames brokerage yards for boats more suited to the river environment. There are a great many sea boats kept inland (ours included) and it is a crying shame that the vast majority will never see the sea again. If you intend to stick to river cruising maybe a boat designed for river cruising would be better. There are still ones that look relatively sporty avaliable that would do the trick and be much more suited to your needs. If you still feel the need for a sea boat at some stage you can sell the river cruiser and buy another boat.
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
Well you would have to get used to the overwelming stench of petrol every time you board the boat, the fact you are sleeping on top of 500 or so litres of a highly flammable substance and the regular emptying of your wallet, but other than that it sounds like your mind is made up
Oh for pitys sake thats a bit over the top, perhaps he should just buy an S23 the best boat in the world and be done with it
Best advice is buy what please's you its your choice and boats are never a sensible pruchase anyway, the 255 will do you well and you won't have much trouble selling it in a year if you find its not what you want to do, just buy it lifes too short to worry about all the whats ifs.
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
If you bothered to read my post i was suggesting not to buy a sea boat at all which would discount the S23 we have. Although we are happy with her, she most certainly isnt a boat suited to a novice boater on a river. We at least get to use her for her intended purpose on a regular basis, stuck on the Thames at slow river speeds constantly wouldnt do the boat any favours.
If the OP has no intention of using this boat at sea he would be well advised to buy a boat designed for river use. Sea boats are not the most suitable boats for river use for a number of reasons, mainly their handling characteristics at slower speeds, which can be interesting to say the least. Most sea boats do not make ideal boats for a first time buyer and can make a nervous boater even less likely to take their boat out. Much better to buy a boat designed for wht you intend to use it for. If the urge to go coastal is still there in a years time, a river boat will sell quickly and easily and then a sea boat can be purchased. Why throw wasted fuel money down the drain for little if no gain?
If the OP has no intention of using this boat at sea he would be well advised to buy a boat designed for river use. Sea boats are not the most suitable boats for river use for a number of reasons, mainly their handling characteristics at slower speeds, which can be interesting to say the least. Most sea boats do not make ideal boats for a first time buyer and can make a nervous boater even less likely to take their boat out. Much better to buy a boat designed for wht you intend to use it for. If the urge to go coastal is still there in a years time, a river boat will sell quickly and easily and then a sea boat can be purchased. Why throw wasted fuel money down the drain for little if no gain?
No Regrets
Well-Known Member
Well you would have to get used to the overwelming stench of petrol every time you board the boat, the fact you are sleeping on top of 500 or so litres of a highly flammable substance and the regular emptying of your wallet, but other than that it sounds like your mind is made up
I still suggest you have a trial on them both and maybe keep looking around thames brokerage yards for boats more suited to the river environment. There are a great many sea boats kept inland (ours included) and it is a crying shame that the vast majority will never see the sea again. If you intend to stick to river cruising maybe a boat designed for river cruising would be better. There are still ones that look relatively sporty avaliable that would do the trick and be much more suited to your needs. If you still feel the need for a sea boat at some stage you can sell the river cruiser and buy another boat.
Given the question involved, this is actually pretty good advice.
Although I never smelt petrol in our humble Birchwood 25, I would NEVER look at a twin Petrol for river use. It won't be good, reliable or economical.
So, for once I agree wholeheartedly!
ras8963
New Member
Thank you....so very true..Oh for pitys sake thats a bit over the top, perhaps he should just buy an S23 the best boat in the world and be done with it
Best advice is buy what please's you its your choice and boats are never a sensible pruchase anyway, the 255 will do you well and you won't have much trouble selling it in a year if you find its not what you want to do, just buy it lifes too short to worry about all the whats ifs.
All the best.
