Hello and advice needed please

[ras8963]

Firstly hello to all as we are new to this forum.
After years of deliberation my wife (family) and I have decided to make a boat purchase, we have read loads of info, done research, viewed boats etc etc but still have some dilemmas over a purchase.
We like space on a boat, have a relatively restrictive budget ( first boat), but very cautious with regard to engines. I have placed the post here as whilst i would like to venture into Sea, (with more knowledge, experience and maybe even our next boat...) initially we will be berthing mid Thames and sailing up and down the river.
We have decided on a boat /layout that suits us most and generally fits our budget is a Sealine 255, there are a few about between 20-25 yrs in good condition both in respect of hull and interior condition but I have read so many horror stories with regard to the twin volvo motors, both reliability and running costs.....I would appreciate any views on this?
Also if someone can advise me on thoughts, if I were to get the boat for a reasonable price and budget to replace the engines for a pair of diesels a few years down the line is this an available option and what would be a sensible budget...?
Thanks very much for any advice,
Roy

 

[Portland Billy]

first boat

Go for diesel (s) - for a first boat it much depends on budget, and how long you intend to keep it before moving onwards and upwards.
Try looking at a few Freemans and Seamasters and have a walk around the marinas and chat to a few folk (they are usually quite keen to show off their boats) and say what you expect of the boat.
I would not go for a twin petrol Sealine for a first boat on the river.

 

[ras8963]

Go for diesel (s) - for a first boat it much depends on budget, and how long you intend to keep it before moving onwards and upwards.
Try looking at a few Freemans and Seamasters and have a walk around the marinas and chat to a few folk (they are usually quite keen to show off their boats) and say what you expect of the boat.
I would not go for a twin petrol Sealine for a first boat on the river.

Thanks for that, we have a budget between 12-20 k naturally would like to stay in the lower part of that if possible. It does seem a struggle to find what we want even in what seems to be a loaded market.
I am keen to understand your reasons not to go for the twin petrol sealine as a first boat though???
Thanks again,
Roy

 

[CX54WEK]

Hi and welcome.

We bought a Sealine S23 diesel for our first boat which we still have and love.However, these boats are not ideal river boats as they are designed for cruising at much higher speeds and have a habit of wandering around at river speeds. On top of that slow speed manouvering isnt an option. When in gear our boat is travelling at 3 to 3.5mph depending on the engine temperature. This isnt a problem for us now as we have managed to get used to how she handles but for a novice it means a lot of bumps scrapes and embarressment.

On the subject of petrol, you will need to check the avaliablity of it where you intend to keep the boat. With a twin petrol engined sea boat, bringing a jerry can isnt a viable option to fill it up. They drink a lot of fuel regardless of what anybody says when compared to a diesel boat plus diesel is readily avaliable waterside.

Within your budget of 12 to 20k there should be plenty of choice around. Visit local marinas and also waterside pubs and have a natter to boat owners, they are a friendly lot on the whole and will be only too happy to share their experience with you.

Having said all of that we wouldnt change our boat as it allows us a compromise between being able to cruise our local waterways (Lincolnshire based) but also being capable of coastal passages which we are starting to enjoy as well now that we are becoming more confident in her abilities.

 

[NeilT]

Hi Roy,
Just been through exactly the same process - finding a boat under £20k for the mid Thames.
I've ended up with a Fairline Targa 27 with a pair of Volvo AQ151's (stay away from AQ171's)
You will get some relevent advice if you look at some of my posts over the past 6 weeks asking exactly the same thing.
You will also get yourself highly confused at the same time
The best thing I did was have a drive out to visit all the brokers along the Thames locally.
I wanted someting older and solid so Fairlines and Sealines were high on the list although there many boats that will serve you well.
The BIGGEST thing as you are a novice like me is GET A SURVEY! it will prevent a potentially expensive mistake.
HTH
N

 

[rr_123]

Portland Billy's advice is good, Freemans and Seamasters are excellent inland boats.

You will find it much easier to learn in a boat that was designed primarily for inland use. It will be easier to handle and moor, and it will probably have better accomodation for the same size of boat.

Aside from being explosive, petrol engines will use more fuel (which is very expensive and not always available on the river) and the electronics associated with petrol ignition are not entirely suited to the damp environments.

Twin engines and twin drives will multiply servicing costs of a single engine on a shaft by about four, and you simply do not need twin engines to manouvre a 25-30' boat. Bow thrusters are much derided on here, but a thruster which is used once or twice a day when the going gets tough makes a lot more sense than an extra engine running all the time IMHO

Make your own decisions; the initial outlay can be significantly lower for petrol engined boats (my current boat has a petrol inboard), but resale can be much harder.

Petrol outboard might be a good bet - economical to run, cheap to re-engine if necessary, and good to learn on.

Get something that suits you and your family now and for the next year or two, first boats are very rarely last boats

 

[apollo]

Personally with that Budget, I would go for a Freeman 26.

Old un, but a good un..

Like this...
http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/MjIzMTM5N35NQk1OMDE=-Freeman_26.html

Other suggestion would be a Fjord Selcruiser which although slightly newer would only have one diesel but still a good sturdy boat.

http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/QUFBMzgzUH5tbWFpMDE=-Fjord_Sel_Cruiser.html

 

[CX54WEK]

Another thing to remember is that buying the boat is only the start of the expense. Dont over stretch yourself just buying the boat.

BOAT = Bring Out Another Thousand

 

[Chris_d]

Sealine 255 is a fine boat and the twin petrols will be fine on the river, but as already said avoid the 171's get the 151's which are much more reliable. However the outdrives will be a potential big cost even just to do routine servicing so if you can't do it yourself look for a single engined boat or one with shafts. Don't discount the older river stuff there are some great boats out there, have a look at a Freeman 27, should be avaliable for 20K and has twin or single diesels on shafts and build quality is superb. Remember also when looking asking prices are meaningless actual selling price is usualy much less, especialy on the Thames.

I'd forget thinking about going to sea to much with your first boat, if thats what you really want to do you will probably want a different boat by then. And as you will find out it takes a lot planning to get there from the river.

 

[David1944]

Engines

I have a Fairline Carrera which has 171's with 500 hours on and they are great, quiet, smooth, and touch wood reliable. Petrol is a small problem but this is not insurmountable. I paid a reasonable price and like the finish, strength and condition after 21 years, when polished and cleaned looks like new with justb a few minor marks on the hull. They all need a little t.l.c to keep them up to scratch.
A happy skipper

 

[Loggo]

I would be inclined towards a lighter, more modern, fibreglass cruiser like a Viking 24/26 if you can afford one. V Econimical at 1 - 1.5 litres of petrol per hour and light to handle for a beginer.

Unless you fancy a walk to the garage there is no riverside petrol between Abingdon and Henley so a largish fuel tank is handy if you go the petrol route

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

All sage advice but if you are looking at inboard petrol I would strongly recommend thinking very carefully, remember that it is substantially more expensive waterside than at a servicwe station attached to a supermarket.

Worth deciding on a first boat what sort of cruising you have in mind, if you are planning on weekending and day trips with family and friends you may look for a different style than a boat for weeks away. In a smaller boat you are facing a tradeoff between accommodation and cockpit space.

A single outdrive boat will be a bit of a so and so to helm, unless it is specifically a river boat with a keel, compared to something with a single shaft.

 

[No Regrets]

Yep, single outdrives do tend to wander, unless attached to a traditional old thing as mentioned above!

Gets a little wearing after a while...

 

[ras8963]

Hi Roy,
Just been through exactly the same process - finding a boat under £20k for the mid Thames.
I've ended up with a Fairline Targa 27 with a pair of Volvo AQ151's (stay away from AQ171's)
You will get some relevent advice if you look at some of my posts over the past 6 weeks asking exactly the same thing.
You will also get yourself highly confused at the same time
The best thing I did was have a drive out to visit all the brokers along the Thames locally.
I wanted someting older and solid so Fairlines and Sealines were high on the list although there many boats that will serve you well.
The BIGGEST thing as you are a novice like me is GET A SURVEY! it will prevent a potentially expensive mistake.
HTH
N

Hi Niel,
thanks for the advice.
The boat we are (strongly) considering has AQ151C's so I would be please to hear how you find them.
the Fairline you have is a nice boat, i hope you enjoy it.
Thanks again, meanwhile i will try the search as you suggest.
Roy

 

[ras8963]

Thanks to everyone in here for the advice, it is truly appreciated, like Neil T i may become forum fodder but please be gentle...
i believe we have decided on a boat and have a choice between a petrol twin and a diesel twin at £5k more. The petrol boat is preferred choice for condition and fit out etc so wodawedo....spin a coin???
Cheers Guys
r
ps; Can anyone advise where i can get the lowdown on thames licence costs???
Cheers again.

 

[No Regrets]

Hi Niel,
thanks for the advice.
The boat we are (strongly) considering has AQ151C's so I would be please to hear how you find them.

Roy

Lift the floor near the rear of the boat...

 

[IAIA3259]

Hi the 5k will buy a lot of petrol, as others have said petrol is very pricy on the riverbank but if you can get your car near the boat the jerry can option is easy and you wont need any more than two cans max for a full day on the river. good luck with your first boat,

Have you sorted your moorings out yet ?

For the Thames licence you need to contact the enviroment agency at Reading and ask for the craft registration department, if you are buying through a broker they should have application forms or should be able to pick one up at any lock (the licence becomes half price in October so dont purchase it before then or you will pay full rate).

Regards Ian

 

[CX54WEK]

Thanks to everyone in here for the advice, it is truly appreciated, like Neil T i may become forum fodder but please be gentle...
i believe we have decided on a boat and have a choice between a petrol twin and a diesel twin at £5k more. The petrol boat is preferred choice for condition and fit out etc so wodawedo....spin a coin???
Cheers Guys
r
ps; Can anyone advise where i can get the lowdown on thames licence costs???
Cheers again.

Spend the extra and buy the diesel. Yes £5k buys a lot of petrol, but having to lug containers of petrol to the boat or buy waterside at stupidly high prices is soon going to get tiring.

The diesel boat is always going to be worth more than the petrol equivalanet and is also always going to be easier to sell. On top of that it will be more economical and fuel avaliability is much better plus the fuel is cheaper to buy, remember boats run on red diesel.

Diesel engines in boats also tend to be much more reliable in the marine environment, if well maintained in the first place.

 

[NeilT]

Hi Roy,
As the fellas say diesel will be the better choice but like you I went for petrols because of initial cost and again like you the petrol boat itself was nicer condition hence saving more in future re-fit costs.
The AQ151C is the best of that range IMHO, it has a forged crankshaft and stronger con rods. The AQ171 is the same engine with a 16v head fitted, whilst this works well when new they can suffer from rusty pullys shredding the cambelt resulting in engine damage. The AQ151 is a "safe" engine and a busted cambelt will not trash the head.
If you want to know lots about the engines head over to the "turbobricks" forum as one of the favourite topics is sticking the marine AQ engines in volvo cars as they are stronger and more powerful than the road going versions.
Single O/D's are a PITA for wandering but you will get better as time goes on, twins are easier to handle but there is twice the chance to cost lots too.
If you are a handy fella with spanners then servicing your own will save a fortune (I will be doing my own engine and O/D work)

Dont forget to get your mooring sorted out, get insurance quotes as you will need that and a boat safety cert for you EA licence.
Keep reading and asking - the fellas on here can sometimes be a little "gruff" with newbies and our questions but the advice is very sound.
HTH
N

 

[Gavi]

I'd strongly advise taking the, er, advice and have a look at a Freeman 27. Big, spacious, comfy and easy to drive.

I started out wanting something a bit sexy but after doing some trials and an inland helmsman course I opted for an F24 and kept hewr for 3 years while I figured out what sort of boat I really "needed".

The F24 was petrol and I found fuel to be no issue, so long as I planned for it on longer trips. A 60ltr tank and she used no more than 2ltr per hour against the current. I tended to fiull up at MDL marinas with the odd top up from the local garage. £100 for fuel every 4 months or so didn't really hurt. I spend more on curry.