heavy wheel Westerly 33

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boathead

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Hi there,

My Westerly 33 is fairly heavy on the wheel, now I paid no attention as my previous boat was a old heavy wooden long keeler and was seriously heavy on the tiller so I was used to this. Actually the Westerly is 'stiff' rather than heavy.

Now, the bushes are all fine and whilst out of the water prior to buying the rudder etc was professionally checked, so no inherant problem. Then the other day a real nice guy (Thanks again Dougie) suggested the chain tension may need adjusting (slacking off a wee bit), I simply wonder if anyone has any experience of messing with the chain tension?

Lastly I get the impression that Westerly 33 owners experiece the same and ignore it.

Cheers.
 
boathead said:
Now, the bushes are all fine and whilst out of the water prior to buying the rudder etc was professionally checked, so no inherant problem. Then the other day a real nice guy (Thanks again Dougie) suggested the chain tension may need adjusting (slacking off a wee bit), I simply wonder if anyone has any experience of messing with the chain tension?

Lastly I get the impression that Westerly 33 owners experiece the same and ignore it.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

It is not unknown for the mechanism in the pedestal to stiffen up. Can you disconnect the drive from the pedestal to the quadrant to check where the stiffness is. It is possible the bushes have been replaced and are a bit tight. This might not show up when dry however some materials swell when wet.

If the stiffness is the pedestal then it needs attention as there could be ball bearings in there lacking in maintenance.
 
boathead said:
Hi there,

My Westerly 33 is fairly heavy on the wheel, now I paid no attention as my previous boat was a old heavy wooden long keeler and was seriously heavy on the tiller so I was used to this. Actually the Westerly is 'stiff' rather than heavy.

Now, the bushes are all fine and whilst out of the water prior to buying the rudder etc was professionally checked, so no inherant problem. Then the other day a real nice guy (Thanks again Dougie) suggested the chain tension may need adjusting (slacking off a wee bit), I simply wonder if anyone has any experience of messing with the chain tension?

Lastly I get the impression that Westerly 33 owners experiece the same and ignore it.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I sailed a Discuss years ago. The enduring memory was of the rather small wheel, which did not have enough machanical advantage, so was hard work. But it was not stiff, just would have benefitted from a larger wheel.
 
We had a W33 that had an extra rim on the wheel to increase the diameter for more leverage. Don't have the cables too tight it scores grooves in the outers and makes it stiff. However, light the W33 steering is not but useable it is within the constraints above.
 
What make of pedestal have you got? It's a loaded question, because some have bearings, while others have bushes, as Diver said. I'm not sure about the system from the pedestal to the quadrant, but if it's conduit-led, I'd suspect that, then next step I'd check wire-tension. Take one end of the wire off the quad, and TIE IT OFF. You don't want the chain to leap off the sprocket with any eagerness. Try the rudder from the quadrant- it should move freely- you should be able to do it slowly by hand in still water.
If that's okay, try holding both ends of the wire and turning the wheel by pulling the wire. That should also be almost easy. If not- suspect the wire-path or the pedestal.
For correct wire-tension, the wire should be able to depress about 1" over a metre by pressing HARD on it. It shouldn't twang or anything!
PM if you want some more exact help.
 
Robin said:
We had a W33 that had an extra rim on the wheel to increase the diameter for more leverage. Don't have the cables too tight it scores grooves in the outers and makes it stiff. However, light the W33 steering is not but useable it is within the constraints above.
Click to expand...

Robin

I am interested to hear how they managed this. I've often looked to buy a larger wheel but I'm sure anything larger will foul the engine lever controls as on mine they are mounted on the face of the starboard locker facing to the stern, so are very close to the wheel rim.

I think some versions had a pedestal mounted control.

Paul
 
The second rim was welded to the original with spokes to the same spots as the orginals, which added about 3" radius or 6" diameter. I think several were done by someone for boats in Chichester where ours came from, but that was 20+ years ago! The other factor someone else mentioned was some boats had nylon bushes in the GRP pedestal not needle bearings as in the later ones. I cut a small access hole in the front of the pedestal on ours (there was an access panel at the back already) and drilled 3 fine holes into the very edge of the nylon bush spaced around the shaft, along it and just touching it. These holes were just big enough to take the tube from a can of teflon lubricant which I squirted in at the start of every season, moving the wheel around as I did it. A small plate covered the access hole after use.
 
Westerly 33 'stiff/heavy' wheel

Hi foks,

Thanks for the replies and apologies for time lag in getting back, got side tracked with a families 'Feeling' with spongy deck around the maststep, guess I don't need to say more on that one.

Robin, I will pay real attention to your comments on scoring grooves, that's something I would have missed when looking before.

As has been said, it is useable and I suppose I have become used to it I'm just thinking that I would like to eliminate the worry that she aint set up correctly. The bushes? hmm, I did eliminate doubt over these, they are relatively new but YES I think I will disconnect the quad it's the obvious thing........ then I can establish where the stiffness is.

Thanks,
 
W33

I own possibly the last W33 made (1982) and, even though the steering is the same as a Discus, it has been modified. The cables from the pedestal to the quadrant have been re-routed across the the aft cabin port locker to give a more direct run. The wheel has also been changed for a larger diameter. It did affect the engine control, as mentioned above. Just turning the lever through 180 degrees sorted that. I suspect that most W33 have a lot of resistance in the steering and you have to decide if you want to live with it or chip away at the causes, as the previous owner of my boat did.
Allan
 
My stiff/heavy steering. APOLOGIES TO ALL

Hi folks,

Well I am a total 'numpty'!
As Robin suggested I checked to see where the stiffness was and have to wonder why I didn't do this in the first place so thanks to you all for being tolerant. Simple, obvious and makes me wonder at my stupidity! The stiffness is at the wheel........ the blinking nylon bushes....... so simple and obvious. One hour and a can of silicon spray grease and the months of wondering/worrying about rudder alignment and bushes and cable tension just went away.

Now even the 'reluctant' journeying wife is happy to steer....... The heavy steering is now acceptable and all stiffness has gone. I've worked up the mast, had the engine in bits, rebuilt the Eberspacher, wired in gizmos and gadgets and yet.... didn't have the common sense to work that one out.

Thanks for the pointers folks and with that final worry out of the way we are preparing to set off for Wick - reluctant journeying wife wondering 'why in Gods name Wick' and prefers the idea of southerly direction i.e. The Med......... So 'Naff' dear, this is much more 'Bohemian'........... Cant't print her reply to that one.

Cheers!
 
boathead said:
Hi folks,

Well I am a total 'numpty'!

! The stiffness is at the wheel........ the blinking nylon bushes....... so simple and obvious. One hour and a can of silicon spray grease and the months of wondering/worrying about rudder alignment and bushes and cable tension just went away.

Cheers!
Click to expand...


Glad to hear it. Maybe a prvious owner used oil. My Westerly has nylon type bushes which are much happier without oil. In fact at one stage had to ease them slighty as they were so tight on the spindle.Rain water is best .:D
 
My newly 'free' steering....

Bilgediver said:
Glad to hear it. Maybe a prvious owner used oil. My Westerly has nylon type bushes which are much happier without oil. In fact at one stage had to ease them slighty as they were so tight on the spindle.Rain water is best .:D
Click to expand...

Hi there 'Bilgediver'

Indeed, not oil but grease, thick sticky and totally nasty. Now almost a joy to steer, though (tongue in cheek) I do miss the ability to leave her to her own devices whilst making tea, it was the cheapest self steering I've ever had she held her course beautifully, just have to use the wheel lock now I suppose..................
 
Heavy Steering - Auto Pilot

Hi, we are also experiencing heavy steering nightmares. My sister and I just sailed throught the night without autopilot and had some serious difficultiies. We had a Raymarine 4000 installed, but it it just is not up to the job of moving the wheel. Does anyone know of a good autopilot solution for the Westerley 33? Many thanks for your feedback.
 
Heavy steering - Westerly 33

Hi! Took everything to pieces yesterday and 'fixed' the problem. 1) disconnected cables from steering quadrant - rudder was moving freely 2) Using access hatch in steering pedestal, pulled wires back and forth independently of the wheel and rudder and ascertained very stiff. Major grease work and pushing and pulling freed up. 3) Lifting steering chain off wheel, moved wheel independently of chains and cable, ascertained steering wheel very stiff also. Removed wheel and took entire steering housing apart, cleaned, greased and even filed wider some nylon bushes. 4) put back together and all much better.

Notes: it's much better, but the autopilot that leverages halfway in from the already small rim still doesn't seem to be able to turn the newly lubricated mechanism...which is still a nightmare for long journeys. I bought a new drive unit but it couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. A bigger wheel would assist with making steering more pleasurable....but that isn't going to solve the autopilot problem that levers from the same place. I'll keep forum posted..... I notice 200 of these yachts mostly have autopilot so their must be a solution....
 
I had a persistent problem with my ST4000+. I found I had modify one of the cam things to stop the belt being too tight. Once this was done it started to work OK.
Allan
 
I have a Westerly which has the same steering system, does anybody know where I can buy new cables I feel sure that after 25 years there must be cables made of modern materials that have less friction if not has any body removed the inner cab and filled with teflon grease before re threading the inner.
Mike
 
Allan said:
I had a persistent problem with my ST4000+. I found I had modify one of the cam things to stop the belt being too tight. Once this was done it started to work OK.
Allan
Click to expand...

That's an interesting comment, mine slips, so the inclination is to tighten it. Last time, I did & it stripped the brass cogs in the gear box & cost me an arm & a foot (I got a discount) to get it rebuilt. Are you saying it is less likely to slip if I slack it off a bit cos that seems counter-intuitive.
 
Allan said:
I had a persistent problem with my ST4000+. I found I had modify one of the cam things to stop the belt being too tight. Once this was done it started to work OK.
Allan
Click to expand...

One of the cams in the ST4000 can be rotated on its own cam to adjust the belt tension.

If your St4000 is working OK but cannot cope then your steering is too stiff.

Boathead Most steering systems were Whitworth and fitted with nylon type bushes which swell with water/ oil / grease so don't touch them with any lub unless you have to.

The best solution is to remove the nylon bushes and replace with bronze ones (Whitworth kit). When fitted but without the spindle in, drill through the boss, behind the wheel, right through the new bush then tap this to take a grease nipple. Do the same on the face at the forward end at about the centre of the spindle. You can then grease both bushes with one squirt of a grease gun on each nipple. I am assuming that the yacht is a ketch and the steering binacle supports the mizzen mast, it may be different if it is not a ketch.

The other main problem and mentioned by another poster is the tension in the cables. If too tight they wear into the outer casings and cause drag and no amount of grease will help it much. Bite the bullet and buy new cables.

Whitworth demonstrated to me at a boat show that there needed to be almost 20 deg free play movement in the wheel and with the cables flopping about all over the place! Personally I think that is far too much but there does need to be some free movement.

Once set up properly the ST4000 will cope perfectly well.
 
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