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Big Fish

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I am fairly inexperienced as I have only sailed on 5 flotillas and 1 bareboat trip plus taking my comp crew and then day skipper. On a recent flotilla in Turkey we were on route to Sogut from Bozuk Buku which entailed having 30+ knots on the beam accompanied by a 2-3 meter short steep swell from the same direction. It was fairly uncomfortable to say the least, i decided to motor which i am not sure was the right decision. What should i have done to make the journey as easy as possible? The Boat was a Dufour 325 with 2 reefing points in the main sail and a Genoa. Grateful for any advice, thanks,
Laurie Watson

P.S. One thing I have learnt about Sailing is that I have not learnt a great deal yet, this cautious attitude, I hope, will keep me and my crew safe.
 
Big Fish said:
I am fairly inexperienced as I have only sailed on 5 flotillas and 1 bareboat trip plus taking my comp crew and then day skipper. On a recent flotilla in Turkey we were on route to Sogut from Bozuk Buku which entailed having 30+ knots on the beam accompanied by a 2-3 meter short steep swell from the same direction. It was fairly uncomfortable to say the least, i decided to motor which i am not sure was the right decision. What should i have done to make the journey as easy as possible? The Boat was a Dufour 325 with 2 reefing points in the main sail and a Genoa. Grateful for any advice, thanks,
Laurie Watson

P.S. One thing I have learnt about Sailing is that I have not learnt a great deal yet, this cautious attitude, I hope, will keep me and my crew safe.
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If you were more comfortable with motoring. It was the right decsision for you and your crew at the time.
A lot of folks may say you should have. They were not there. You brought the boat in, crew and boat intact you got it right.
You now have a bit more expierience.
A couple of sugestions which may be helpfull in future.
Practice putting in a reef in good conditions. It will help to have done it before you find you have to when the boat is heeled over and bouncing around.
If the wind is rising or expected to increase, reef early again its easier before you start to get over powered.
If I think it might be a bit windy. I put a reef in before I leave. its easier to shake a reef I don't need out than it is to put one I find I need in.
I like to start with the 1st reef 1st. keeping the geeny full its points better.
(although if wind is variable I may leave main and adjust sise of genny with furler as wind fluctautes)
2nd roll up about a 1/3rd of genny
If wind stronger 2nd reef,
as it gets strnger roll up to only a 1/3rd out on the genny .
For most boats should be good for up to 30 knots but you wont know till you try.
 
Big Fish said:
I am fairly inexperienced as I have only sailed on 5 flotillas and 1 bareboat trip plus taking my comp crew and then day skipper. On a recent flotilla in Turkey we were on route to Sogut from Bozuk Buku which entailed having 30+ knots on the beam accompanied by a 2-3 meter short steep swell from the same direction. It was fairly uncomfortable to say the least, i decided to motor which i am not sure was the right decision. What should i have done to make the journey as easy as possible? The Boat was a Dufour 325 with 2 reefing points in the main sail and a Genoa. Grateful for any advice, thanks,
Laurie Watson

P.S. One thing I have learnt about Sailing is that I have not learnt a great deal yet, this cautious attitude, I hope, will keep me and my crew safe.
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Don't sell yourself short, you acted perfectly correctly for your level of experience & confidence + you & your crew got there safely.
 
If you had just used the Genoa only, you may have found it quite acceptable to sail, say 1/3 reefed. A roller reefing genoa is relatively easy to deploy and reef from the safety of the cockpit. A question you need to think about is what would you have done if the engine stopped? Think through your options and you may have decided to try sailing first. Skippers should always try and have a contingency plan available for the activity they are doing. Best of luck with your sailing.
 
Nothing wrong with your decision. I would consider adding some reefed main. It is generally more comfortable with some sail up
 
What decision is the least risky: to motor or to sail? In my opinion, motoring in 2-3 meter waves beam on is more risky than sailing. The crew would have been subjected to an uncomfortable roll with a faster frequency than sailing increasing the risk of falling, the diesel would have had a greater risk of having air drawn in and stopping. It is not unreasonable that a stopped engine would have required sail to be hoisted instead of bleeding. So, it was not the best decision in a yacht that is designed to sail in this type of wind.
 
I'd certainly have sailed, although depending on the boat you may have wanted a third reef that it didn't have - Med charter boats are often not equipped for breezy conditions. In that case (and again it depends on the boat, but modern white lozenges often do it quite well) I might get the main right down and sail under genoa only - this also means you'll have the genoa less tightly rolled for a given total sail area, so it'll be shaped more like a sail and less like a bag. You also know that you can easily roll it in some more if required. On a charter boat with unknown gear, I would probably make the furling line fast to a handy mooring cleat, pushpit leg, etc - sometimes the clutch can slip and let out more sail when you really don't want it.

On the other hand, as everybody else has said, what you decided to do worked on the day, and that's all that really matters.

Pete
 
While not saying you are wrong (a genny with a few rolls in is an easily set and controlled and still quite powerful sail), a rig is always more efficient and kinder to the boat when the loads are spread out and balanced. I hate seeing a yacht bashing to windward quite hard pressed with full genny and no main. A part-rolled genny and one or two reefs is kinder to the boat, probably easier on the helm, much kinder to the genny and the efficiency of having a slot means you can go as fast with less sail set. Also, if you are having to beat to windward, tacks are much easier on the crew if the genny is a little smaller because winch loads are less while the main largely looks after itself.

As an aside I am slightly surprised the flotilla leader decided to take a group of seemingly inexperienced sailors out in 30 knots plus.
 
As the owner of a Dufour 325 for 5 years I would have used the 2nd reef in the main and about 50% of the genoa in 30 knots of true wind on the beam. Reefing on the 325 can be very easily done from the cockpit. The second reef is very deep as the vessel is so light. That done, you would have managed at least 8kts of boat speed in comfort and safety and had an exhilarating sail into the bargain!

Hope this helps - appreciate it is easy to be wise with over 6000 miles experience in a 325!
 
Twister_Ken said:
I'd probably have sailed with the genoa only, unless there was a real prospect of the wind going forward. Depending on the size of the genoa, all or just part of it.
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We are also novices, and were out in lesser but similar (27/28kn wind) rolly 2-2 1/2 mtr seas and wanted to get back asap. Taking the waves at about 45 deg on the beam with 2 reefs in the main and the engine on at low revs gave us the smoothest and quickest journey. We started with both sails up and reefed, but had too much heel when when falling off waves and during gusts, so opted for the main as the stabiliser and the engine for extra push. Reading this, will try the Jib next time, as I have was taught that the main had the greatest stabilising effect and made the helm the easiest.
 
titsey said:
As the owner of a Dufour 325 for 5 years I would have used the 2nd reef in the main and about 50% of the genoa in 30 knots of true wind on the beam. Reefing on the 325 can be very easily done from the cockpit. The second reef is very deep as the vessel is so light. That done, you would have managed at least 8kts of boat speed in comfort and safety and had an exhilarating sail into the bargain!

Hope this helps - appreciate it is easy to be wise with over 6000 miles experience in a 325!
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Thanks very much for that we are going again in Late September so if a similar set of circumstances arises i will use the sails, it is after all a sailboat, thank you,
Laurie Watson
 
Ripster said:
Reading this, will try the Jib next time, as I have was taught that the main had the greatest stabilising effect and made the helm the easiest.
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Probably true, but I was imagining myself on a boat which really needed to be on its third reef but was only equipped with two (charter boat in the med, optimised more as a mobile swimming platform than an all-weather sailing vessel). In that case, and since he wasn't trying to get to windward, the only way to reduce sail further seemed to be to drop the main entirely. If there had been a third reef, that and an appropriately-rolled jib would have been better.

Pete
 
My thinking was along the same lines, and concerned that the wind might increase above the 30kts mark when the main might have needed to be dropped if no more reefs available: not fun.

The boat would scoot along quite happily with just a genny and the wind on the beam, and would be relatively passive to handle. With the main up as well (and no traveller to speak of on charter boats) I could visualise her rounding up in the gusts, and frightening the crew.
 
Big Fish said:
P.S. One thing I have learnt about Sailing is that I have not learnt a great deal yet, this cautious attitude, I hope, will keep me and my crew safe.
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Laurie, welcome to the forum. As you will see you are getting a good mix of advice here already, there is nothing I need add. Except that is to comment on your last paragraph. It is an attitude which should always remain with you. I've only been sailing 20 years and would like to concur with what you say, others who have 30 or 40years may also agree.

You never stop learning.
 
Ours indeed only has 2 reefs - though there is rigging provision for a 3rd, not yet installed, but the sail would need to be suitably modified, which is on the list for next year. As novices, we are just starting to sail in stronger winds (for us) 22-30kn and not just run for port, so interested in this subject. We are still at the stage of doing what should theoretically be right and seeing what actually happens, which can be er.. interesting on occasion particularly in stronger winds.
 
Big Fish said:
Thanks very much for that we are going again in Late September so if a similar set of circumstances arises i will use the sails, it is after all a sailboat, thank you,
Laurie Watson
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Just a little tip; when everything gets a little hectic, try heaving-to. Everything resorts to relative calm and it's much easier to adjust the sails, take in a reef. Reefing is an essential skill on sail boats. Once you are reefed appropriately, you will find that sails are both more fun and more reliable than an engine.

Enjoy your next sail.
 
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