Heavy Weather Suvival

[RMTB]

I seek the opinions of any who have encountered survival conditions. Firstly let me say that I am a coastal sailor of minimal experience and whilst we get some pretty hectic conditions here in the Bristol Channel, its nothing like blue sea survival.

Probably like most sailors at any level, there is a deep self protection interest in how to handle real bad weather. To that end I have read and re-read my copy of ‘Heavy Weather Sailing’ by Alard Coles. Recently though I have also read ‘Storm Tactics Handbook’ by Lin and Larry Pardy.
To my mind, what comes across from this book and their accounts of successfully handling very bad situations, is the fact that if a boat is held (by whatever means) at around 50 degrees to the wind, it moves mainly to leeward. This leeward movement creates a ‘slick’ which dissipates the dangerous breaking crests.

So my question is, has anyone with experience of these conditions set up their boat to create this ‘slick’ and does this method really dissipate or diminish the breaking crests,
which by all accounts are the core danger of survival conditions.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Never been in those conditions (fingers x'd) but know several people who survived the Fastnet storm, and one point they make is that there was no regular wave-train - the waves seem to be coming from several directions. In a case like that, difficult to see how 'creating a slick' would help.

 

[sighmoon]

I seek the opinions of any who have encountered survival conditions. Firstly let me say that I am a coastal sailor of minimal experience and whilst we get some pretty hectic conditions here in the Bristol Channel, its nothing like blue sea survival.

I disagree. What you get in the Bristol channel is biggish waves meeting a very strong tide going the other way, so you get big, steep, breaking waves, whereas in open water the waves are likely to be more gently rounded. Also, you get waves reflected off cliffs cofusing things.

My one experience of frightening waves (in the Bristol Channel) is recorded for posterity here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07CS5_Vrub4
I wouldn't say it was survival conditions, only about force 7, but it had been windier a while before, and the waves were a danger. The camera shrinks the waves some; at the time the biggest of them were probably mast height - about 9m, but mostly smaller. Forecast was for 4m average wave height, but they overtake one another and make bigger waves in the process

The deliberate mistakes:
1) Hatch open - big no-no. It seemed reasonable at the time in view of other considerations, but was plain daft.
2) towing a dinghy - the leash was shortened to stop it joining us in the cockpit, but still, best not. The dinghy survived but threw a vengeful hissy fit and chucked us out when rowing to a relatively sheltered beach later on. We deserved that.

Some things which others have said I did wrong:
3) When I posted this here before, some folks said I should have rigged a gybe preventer. I disagree. If you crash gybe, the last thing you want is to be pinned side on to the waves. What we did instead was let the vang off a long way, so we could sail a little by the lee if forced to by the wave direction. This also takes a little of the sting out of the gybe.
4) Having full sail up. Admittedly, there was a danger of breaking something (but we got away with it), but IMHO, it's best to keep moving. Full sail may well have been too much, but no sail would have been worse - the hairiest moment was when we lost all steerage way because we were in the lee of a big wave. Consequently, when the wave hit, we were quarter on, and not moving at all - and the wave knocked us straight over (to about 70 degrees anyway).

I'm essentially a dinghy sailor who likes somewhere to sleep, so you will likely get more seamanly answers form others.

Edit: What makes the blue sea more dangerous than the Bristol Channel though is that you are likely to be out in the storm for a few days rather than a few hours

 

[snooks]

I was always taught to beat into the wind during a storm.

It was a tactic that got my dad, and the boat he was on, through the 79 Fastnet.

They took the sail off the boom, lashed the boom to the side deck and set the storm jib.

But obviously there needs to be someone helming, so it might not work for every one.

 

[sighmoon]

They took the sail off the boom, lashed the boom to the side deck ...

With a strong racing crew, I'm sure that's viable, but for a man and wife on a 40 footer it might be a big ask. I can see why you'd want to, but would you and Kirsty be able, or might the consequences of trying be worse than leaving it on?

 

[snooks]

With a strong racing crew, I'm sure that's viable, but for a man and wife on a 40 footer it might be a big ask. I can see why you'd want to, but would you and Kirsty be able, or might the consequences of trying be worse than leaving it on?

It all depends how much warning I had, and the size of boat.

On our 32 footer I have a rigid vang which would hamper the effort to lower the boom so it would have to come off at one end.

But if we were say mid Atlantic and the storm was forecast, I would do as much to reduce windage as possible. If that meant removing the rigid vang (1 split pin and washers) and mainsail (Two screws on the mast gate and 3 shackles) I would.

If we were in a bigger boat with a bigger sail (and it wasn't mainsail furling) then you're right, it would be harder to shift the mainsail. If I had enough time, I would if we could. If I couldn't I would lash it as tight as possible to reduce it's size and stop the cover from being ripped to shreds, then secure the boom as low as possible to leeward, sort out the rest of the boat, get some rest, sort out snacks, make up flasks etc before we got hit.

 

[Salty John]

I'm sure the protective slick has a lot to do with the Pardey's boat design; heavy displacement, long keel.
I've used heaving-to and running downwind as storm tactics quite successfully. When hove-to I can't say I've noticed the 'slick effect'.

 

[rotrax]

I was always taught to beat into the wind during a storm.

It was a tactic that got my dad, and the boat he was on, through the 79 Fastnet.

They took the sail off the boom, lashed the boom to the side deck and set the storm jib.

But obviously there needs to be someone helming, so it might not work for every one.

Hi Snooks, Our mentor,with hundreds of thousands of ocean miles under his belt suggests that beating into the wind is the first step, under storm sails. If things get worse "dodging" by motoring head on to the waves like the trawlers is the next tactic. Next up is running before the wind trailing a bight of rope-the longer the better. Finally lying ahull with everything battened down and fingers crossed. I hope to avoid these situations but you never know.....

 

[alant]

I was always taught to beat into the wind during a storm.

It was a tactic that got my dad, and the boat he was on, through the 79 Fastnet.

They took the sail off the boom, lashed the boom to the side deck and set the storm jib.

But obviously there needs to be someone helming, so it might not work for every one.

Might help to keep the strongest part of the boat pointing windward, but "beat into wind during a storm"?

Thats F10 - 48 - 55 knts & 9m waves!

If you've ever been out in those winds, not sure you'd want to beat. As long as you have sea room heave to. I have heaved to in 55 knts & still drifted 25 miles, this in the Med.
In most cruising boats windward sailing is untenable, for boat & certainly most crews, in storm conditions.
Sailing off the wind, can also be an easier option, depending on sea conditions.

A few years ago, on a Sigma 38 Sailing School boat, with winds gusting 46knts Westerly, rigged with storm jib & treble reefed main, I set off from Ocean Village down Southampton Water, hugging the west shore. Good exhilarating sailing until Calshot, where sea/wave conditions became IMO 'riskier' & uncomfortable, so we turned about & had a return sail ending up in Hythe Marina.
These conditions made beating into waves difficult, but on another occasion made the opposite trip, Cowes to Hamble in similar winds, but relatively easy & comfortable because off the wind.

 

[snooks]

Next up is running before the wind trailing a bight of rope-the longer the better.

That is something I don't think I would do.

I'd rather steam something like a line/anchor/line and anchor/line with lots of knots, anchor, and another line off the bow first, before I try running down the face of a big wave. I'd rather have the pointy end facing the wave than the blunt end.

But if it gets down to that sort of situation I think I'd be willing to try anything, including prayer to any "god" that will listen

 

[alant]

Hi Snooks, Our mentor,with hundreds of thousands of ocean miles under his belt suggests that beating into the wind is the first step, under storm sails. If things get worse "dodging" by motoring head on to the waves like the trawlers is the next tactic. Next up is running before the wind trailing a bight of rope-the longer the better. Finally lying ahull with everything battened down and fingers crossed. I hope to avoid these situations but you never know.....

Don't know your "mentor", but in the average boat, beating into a storm"

 

[sighmoon]

That is something I don't think I would do.

I'd rather steam something like a line/anchor/line and anchor/line with lots of knots, anchor, and another line off the bow first, before I try running down the face of a big wave. I'd rather have the pointy end facing the wave than the blunt end.

Not that I've tried it, but I've read it on this forum before, but the problem with streaming it off the bow is that then the boat is going backwards - perhaps quite fast, which puts a tremendous strain on the rudder.

But if it gets down to that sort of situation I think I'd be willing to try anything, including prayer to any "god" that will listen

WHat was that quote about Cape Horn - somehting along the lines of "At 40 degrees South, all men, even Athiests begin to pray. At 50 degrees, nobody is praying; God has foresaken them"

 

[snooks]

Might help to keep the strongest part of the boat pointing windward, but "beat into wind during a storm"?

Thats F10 - 48 - 55 knts & 9m waves!

It was the tactic employed on Black Arrow a UFO 34 during the 79 Fastnet. They won their class, so they did something right that night. Which is why my father always taught me to head into it rather than run away from in, no matter how tempting it is.

In Storm conditions you wouldn't be pointing very high, but forward movement will give you steerage which would be an advantage if you are able to helm the boat.

It would work in my boat, not that I want to put it to the test, but my boat isn't a fat bummed, built for living in rather than sailing.

If it's too dangerous to be on deck helming, then hove-to would be my next logical step, followed by attaching everything to the bow cleats, spreading the load back, then dumping it over the bow.

 

[KellysEye]

I've sailed in seventy knots if that counts. The things to do:

- prepare food, hot flask drinks and night snacks for how long it's due to last.
- tie everything down on deck and down below and make sure nothing can fly around. Check the battery ties and the cooker is locked in it's gimbals (it should lock but still move)
- reef early to the level of winds expected plus a bit.
- be prepared for bad visibility at those wind speed the vis will be about 100 feet in spray all around and upwards. It's difficult to see the waves coming because of the spray.
- make sure all hatches are secure and the hatchway. In event of a knockdown the washboard(s) should be secured with wire to the boat.
- Wear a harness at all times and appropriate wet weather gear, thermals etc to keep warm
- Be very careful going down below and while below there is a severe danger of being thrown across the boat. Also be very careful coming up on deck.
- If you have a fin keel and spade rudder don't heave to. A big wave will push you back and may break the rudder.
- You can run off towing drogues if you have them or a weighted very long loop of rope. Tie the rope to the cleats and tighten with the winches to spread the load. Prepare this well before the weather arrives and deploy before the conditions make it impossible. Bear in mind running off you must be a long way offshore.
- Its always better to keep sailing offwind or broad reaching but not beam reaching. A big sea can roll you when beam reaching. We chose to broad reach it reduces the apparent wind.
- try to get some sleep after doing the checks but before the bad weather arrives.

Beyond that enjoy, it's an awesome sight and if you are well prepared there should be no problem. Also you will have serious bragging rights.

 

[Vara]

Taking a Nicholson 55, to Norway got caught in a force 10 gusting 12.

The progression as the wind strengthened was to reef, then rig storm main and headsail, heave too, then get all sail down, lock helm and all go below, wedge our selves in and hope.

At it's height it was impossible to get out on the decks, even in the cockpit life was distinctly unpleasant, any thought of rigging trailing warps or any of the other heavy weather sailing suggestions were non starters. As for maintaining a watch, forget it, vis was about 10m and there was not a lot of we could have done to avoid anything else.

Communication and even breathing was very difficult outside, and this was with a crew of nine physically fit soldiers most of whom were experienced sailors.

My conclusion was that all the much vaunted theories are fine up to about a top of a nine, after that it's a bit of a lottery.

 

[westernman]

For every boat there is a wind strength where you can no longer make any progress to windward at all. For us with triple reefed main and storm staysail and no jib this is towards the upper end of F9. Also in the same conditions we cannot make any progress into the wind with the engine (90HP) at full throttle either.

For us going to windward in F9 is very unpleasant and extremely wet (either under sail or under engine) and depressingly slow.The waves are large, very short and steep here in the med. And we seem to end up with a surface current of up to 2 knots flowing with the wind. We have the bow under water every 4th wave or so including all 16ft of bowsprit. I removed the bowsprit netting because of this - it was pushing us backwards just too much in the waves. The decks are of course clean afterwards.

However, if we heave to in those conditions, we are probably making less than a knot to leeward through the water, things are relatively comfortable and we do see a noticeable slick which seems to calm the breaking bits of the waves and to reduce the spray coming aboard. We then get very few waves breaking over the decks. We are also at a much more reasonable angle of heel than we would need to be at to make progress to windward.

However, running off down wind, with just the staysail up, or even under bare poles is very pleasant. In F9, with the staysail, we are at 8 knots (more than that and I would reef it or lower it) and we hardly ever even get the deck wet. We do get the odd wave over the stern but it is rare. The difference between that and going the other way has to be experienced to be believed.

We have never been out what I would call survival situations, but we have had extremely unpleasant beats into F9s and also an extremely pleasant and comfortable run with a F9 behind us when the sun was shining. Mother in law even cooked a full dinner during that!

 

[VO5]

In my experience, at the risk of the imminent onset of bad weather, the thing to do is to act decisively and EARLY.

I think it is a grave mistake to reduce sail progressively because in doing that time is wasted and priorities are put back to front, inadvertently.

I prefer to go down to storm jib straight away and to deploy a Seabrake drogue immediately.

That the weather worsens, OK, bare poles.

That it does not, OK, stay as you are and run.

That it does not happen, OK, recover the Seabrake and carry on as normal.

This is my view. Others may differ.

But before all this, the first priority for me is to fix position and decide whether to run for port if possible and if not, to seek sea room, or, sea room permitting, to enact the above drill immediately, without delay.

 

[Csail]

All i do is full throttle into the big waves and hope.Worst was doom bar outside padstow late one night.Other bad places are between flatholm and steepholm and also ramsey sound. Nash sands gets nasty but don't go near turbot bank buoy.

 

[alant]

All i do is full throttle into the big waves and hope.Worst was doom bar outside padstow late one night.Other bad places are between flatholm and steepholm and also ramsey sound. Nash sands gets nasty but don't go near turbot bank buoy.

In 'storm' conditions, or what at the time is your 'heavy weather'?

Not a criticism, just trying to assess "full throttle into the big waves" conditions, relative to wind strength.

 

[BrianH]

Most of my sailing has been done in small yachts and "beating into a storm" would have been out of the question, in a few cases windage of the mast alone has laid my boat flat over.

Many years ago, six hours out from Den Helder returning to Whitby in a 24' YW Buccaneer, we received the shipping forecast of a F8-F9 in our shipping areas. It soon materialised from the SW and with a small headsail alone we were soon being pressed down and shipping some big seas, the only solution was to take down all sail and lie a-hull.

The waves, after a chaotic start settled down and formed some formidible crests with spume being blown downwind - much higher than I would have expected for the north sea. In the troughs there was little wind but rising to the crests we were heeled right over by the wind strength - I had no wind measuring instruments to know exactly what it was.

The gale started in the evening and lasted 17 hours through a very dark night - too long for me and my two inexperienced crew to sail the boat. Beat to windward? No way would it have been possible with a small yacht in those conditions. Lying a-hull was relatively comfortable below provided we kept to our berths. We drifted 42nm to leeward but it was still 100nm before we would have hit Norway - it was also before many of the present gas rigs were built in that area.