Heavy weather .. Lessons Learnt

jimi

jimi

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1)Clip on when the FIRST reef goes in (I've got a bit lax there)
2)Ensure spare diesel can is lashed down
3)Monitor position and ground track constantly
4)Ensure washboards are accessible (I'm going to get spares made and keep them downstairs)
5)Tie on dodgers with bustable string or shock cord
6)Considering an Epirb (what would happen if you did roll?)
7)Think about trailing warps earlier (we did'nt .. apart from a spinnaker sheet
8)Method of securing lid of Chart table
9)Method of securing lid of fridge
10)Make sure your oilies are waterproof

Apart from that think we were OK.

Do'nt really think we could have got more info on the weather, apart from perhaps radioing the CG before making the decision to run back.



<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
I think also the issue of "getting knocked about in the boat" is relevant. A casualty, even a minor one, can often make a difficult situation worse - and the best person to help/bandage the skipper recover is often the second in command.

I noticed that your boat has several areas where the guard rails (for example) are protected to prevent hand injury, or that's what it seemed. Perhaps more of that sort of thing? Perhaps look at each side of the saloon as a floor onto which you'd land and consider protecting/removing sharp edges. Pipe lagging and duck tape?

Perhaps even wear one of those back braces, as worn by horse riders who also risk a fall?

Good list so far tho

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Good stuff, Jimi.

One of the main recommendations of the Fastnet enquiry concerned keeping yachts watertight, as a safeguard in the event of a capsize. In fact modern designs have taken a lot of the recommendations in that respect on board. But one thing the enquiry particularly mentioned is that your washboards should be securable so they can be opened but will not drop out.

As you say, its a good idea to make sure everything is fastened down inside. Heavy stuff like batteries, gas bottles, cooker particularly. Crew not on watch should be able to strap themselves into their bunks.

Do you really carry warps large enough to be useful for running before? Very few yachts do!

Did you consider wearing lifejackets, or do you automatically anyway?
 
All our harnesses are lifejacket/harness combinations, so really its harnesses & lifejackets on at the first reef with lines available and clipped on at the second reef.

Length of warp .. Ithink I've got enough if I joined all my warps together and trailed them in a loop using the spinnaker sheets to attach them, but you're right, a long warp will be on my shopping list, both for this purpose and as an anchor warp

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
i wanted to buy one some time ago - seemed a good "fail-safe". however using it in appropriate nasty conditions, the nylon wrap stretches (obviously and as intended) quite considerably, 35%?, and over the recommended length of warp this is about a boat length. When the warp relaxes, eg in a wave trough, there is more than enough slack rope to allow the boat to turn beam on and over she goes. That's one reason against them .. the other is that the constant stressing and relaxation in the warp causes an acidic component in the nylon to be released. This, eventually, snaps it.

hope this helps ... note all gleaned from various books - not practical experience


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I had been taking it as read that they were wearing life jackets. However there was another post about crotch straps earlier in the week, and the two threads come together.

My policy is that everybody is fitted out with a LJ before we even start the engine to leave the marina, then they have a choice to wear it as much or as little as they wish during normal condiitions. I also say that if any situation arises where I clearly instruct the crew to put them on, there is to be no debate about it.

However, as many people are honest enough to admit they prefer not to wear straps, how many of us leave it too late to put our life jackets on? This can be either in deterioating weather or when there is an increased risk, such as a visit to the foredeck or even a pee over the stern?

I find myself being very cautious when just SWMBO and myself are on board, but with a bunch of blokes its too easy to think that they haven't bothered so I don't need to either. I feel pretty sure I'm not the only one.

<hr width=100% size=1>People who think they know it all are very annoying to those of us that do.
 
Getting knocked about in the boat

I was involved in a rescue several years ago, where the skipper had fallen in rough seas, although nowhere near enough for a knock-down, and broken his wrist. He was totally incapitated, in great pain. His crew was inexperienced, could steer the boat under engine but could not use the VHF, hence my involvement.

Jimi, what happened to your sole boards? I'm having much difficulty in finding a way of holding them in place without screwing them down, as we store quite a lot of kit beneath them.

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To be honest, in these conditions a lifejacket would have been irrelevant. If you did go over the side you'd be lost immediately and manoevring the yacht in these conditions to try and find someone would have endangered the yacht. Had someone gone over, I'd have hove to and sent out a Mayday immediately.
Clipping on is much more important than a life jacket IMHO.

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
Fair comment, but if they had become unconscious for some reason, at least the jacket gives them a chance of survival by keeping their head out of the water.

<hr width=100% size=1>People who think they know it all are very annoying to those of us that do.
 
Re: Getting knocked about in the boat

The sole boards went flying (as did all the mattresses and boards underneath them) . I'm considering securing them (and the chart table & fridge) with bits of bungee attached underneath to hooks. The idea is that there's enough stretch in the bungee to be able to release when required.

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
Jim

If your fridge is top-opening like mine the inertia of a roll will let it and the contents fly at much less than 90 degrees. We took a heavy roll which was only around 70 degs or so and lid and contents had to be recovered afterwards. It was a right mess below. My lid is heavy and hinged in the middle, it makes a fine missile and I'm fitting a webbing strap over the top for heavy weather. Incidentally, when we did roll I was on deck but the crew below assumed we'd gone right over.

I have a cord on the top washboard and a small cleat in the companionway which would keep them in place. We don't have dodgers but do have an EPIRB.

Not sure about trailing warps in those conditions- I'm more inclined to keep a bit of speed going as long as possible provided I have sea room, and to run off at an angle to the seas.

Do you have an emergency VHF antenna? If you do suffer a knock-down under sail it's likely you'll lose the rig and with it your antenna.

Regards
Tom

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Parachute drogues

I'm now convinced you are right that a parachute cannot reliably hold a yacht firmly enough in big waves (despite the Pardeys). Also, to be honest, I'd doubt my ability to deploy such a device from the foredeck in the worst conditions. Like you, this is a strictly theoretical!

I saw some film of tank tests at the Wolfson unit recently that was very impressive about the effectiveness of a trailed series drogue, which held the models firmly stern to and safe in waves that instantly capsised a yacht 'hove to'. What I hadn't appreciated before is that with a good series drogue, unlike a trailed warp, no active steering is needed by the crew who can simply retreat below. Of course there has to be enough clear downwind searoom.

So this winter I'm converting my main heavy-weather warp to a series drogue. It's a bit of a monster, 200m of 25mm rope but even that, weighted and trailed in a bight, had only a moderate influence the one time I used it in earnest.
 
Re: A few additions

Before you go heavy weather sailing....

Make sandwich's and flasks of coffee.

Put sweets and lemonade or similar in the cockpit for ready use.

The skipper must do a real walk about inspection of everything. Inside and out. If you've any doubts about loose deck gear put an extra lashing on it.

Put things you might need in a "ready use" position in or near the cockpit.

Get some seaberths & buckets ready.

Get the crew ready..

If they've got specific jobs get them up to speed.

Tell them all about your plans, including the fact that you may not get to where your going but to an alternative or even back to where you started from. I've see moral plumet because suddenly we can't go where we want to. Explain that we're sailing with the washboards in. It's amazing how many people find this a worry.

Get them to have a piss and take there seasickness pills before they put all that kit on.

I like to avoid crew, particularly beginers, having to go below at the outset of a passage. You often don't get them back.

On passage..

Be prepared to run out of helmsmen. I try not to helm much but to be near the helm to give advice.

Beware of cold and tension reducing efficiency. If it's going to be a long hard sail I do little tests in my head or with the crew, to see if I'm still working OK.

Try and have a passage plan that allows the skipper as much time on deck as possible. Initially it needs a lot of flexibility in it. Course to steer for example, can be a bit "suck it and see".

Don't be shy about running the engine. A lot of people find that comforting.

Watch out for crew inertia. They get wedge in, hood up, and cease to be useful.

Don't use drogues in the channel. The shipping won't like you. Remember heaving to you can use the autopilot if your boats skittish.






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My fridge lid is attached to the fridge so fortunately it was just the contents .. good job there was no glass bottles in iit though. I had a big rice container in a locker in the rear cabin which came flying through and lost its lid, fortunately the rice did'nt spill .. or that could have been a nightmare for the bilgepump! Will ensure that such items are secured appropriately in future.

I've got an emergency antenna and a handheld.

The point about trailing warps was that when we came down the waves, we tended to broach up slighty and it really was to try and avoid that, in fact when we got knocked down, it was just after coming down a wave and we had broached a little (I do'nt mean big broaches, just coming up 30 or 40 degrees to port) and then this large overhanging breaking wave just caught us almost beam on. I'd think that trailing something would help to avoid the wee broaches and help stabilise the quarter onto the seas.


<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
Lifejacket irrelevant? Hmmm ... disagree.

Go over and you are lost anyway was the theory for the Cape-Horners.

But a lifejacket would extend survival in the Channel at this time of year from maybe 15 mins to 3 - 4 hours --- all the difference for the very efficient rescue services out there to do their job.

Incidentally a good yacht skipper should, with sufficient adreneline, be capable of making a decent shot at an MOB recovery even in an F8.

I agree with you though that the thing to rely on is the lifeline.
 
Re: Hmmm .... disagree.

Mmmm .. think its more to do with sea state than wind.. do'nt forget we were in wind against tide , in the dark. Possibly if you could see the MOB you'd have fighting chance, but in the dark in that sea state .. no chance.

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
Golden Rule of MOB

This conversation serves to prove that the best way of managing a MOB situation, is to avoid anybody going over in the first place.

So taking your point Jimi, and assuming the crew in the cockpit were clipped on, were they able to recover their footing/grip quite quickly? Or did they find themselves lying in some awkward postion against the guardrail with a harness line wrapped round their necks?

<hr width=100% size=1>People who think they know it all are very annoying to those of us that do.
 
Re: Golden Rule of MOB

The helm had a firm grip on the wheel and retained it during the experience despite being completely submerged. The other crew member on deck was clipped on with a strechy shock absorbing lifeline, he was catapulted across the cockpit with the elasticity all broken out the line. The major problem then was slipperiness due to spilt diesel.

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
Re: Parachute drogues

Regarding parachute drogues, you might like to talk to the guy that sells them at the boat show. You deploy them by having them stowed it in the cockpit with the line shackled to something strong on the foredeck. You keep the line in between ties to the side with cable ties. When the need arises you deploy it from the cockpit, then cable ties pop under pressure. They are extenisvely used by Oz squid boats to ride out busters, so I'm told. The skippers prefer to stay at sea rather than let the crew ashore to get P***ed and not work for a few days. Perhaps the Ozzies should have used those guys last Saturday!

Best of luck with the sereis drogue. We made one and it took the efforts of my mother-in-law and her friend to sew up the 100 cones and then a good week to thread all of the cones onto the multiplat.

Fortunately, I have never had to deploy it

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