Heart over brain I'm considering buying a wooden boat

[Georgio]

I have always wanted a small classic boat (to go with my beard although I don't smoke a pipe) but have resisted until now, However a little 2 1/2 Ton Hillyard has come to my attention and it's a pretty wee thing.

While it is going to cost me far more than its worth to get it moved, ready to sail them launched it does tug at the heartstrings.

Can I ask a few questions...

1. The boat has been ashore for a couple of years and the planks have dried out, although not alarmingly. How likely is it to take up once afloat and not leak too badly or should I be prepared to recaulk? This is perhaps impossible to tell?

2. Are there any known week points that I should be looking for beyond checking for soft planks, cracked ribs etc. There is no point in getting such a cheap boat surveyed and I'm a reasonably practical. I have been on the Hillyard owners website but there is surprisingly little info about these boats.

3. How do I explain to the wife I have bought another boat?

4. How do I explain to the racing crew on my plastic classic that I have bought another boat rather that the new spinnaker that is needed.

 

[pmagowan]

First thing, heart should always rule the head unless you are an accountant!

Lovely little boat. With that size of boat I would not worry too much about taking up as you can launch her in a controlled fashion and have a pump handy. If she needs a bit of work or a repaint then you can get a really good look at the hull and repair any problems there and then. With a good paint job then the taking up process takes long enough to not cause any problems (in my experience).

Get inside and poke about. You will likely find some rot or some broken frames as is inevitable in an old wooden boat. These are not significant problems and if a few frames are broken you can simply buddy up some laminated frames over a weekend. Have a wee look at the fixings as perhaps the biggest problem is these failing through regular expansion and contraction of the wood, especially if she has been stored dry many times. Sometimes you get what is known as nail sickness and they need replaced. Sometimes they have already been replaced and to do so another time would be like 'cut along the perforations' for the frames.

I got a slightly bigger wooden boat (28' honeybee) and I dropped a keel bolt or two to check. They were perfect and I think if the join between keel and hull is good they are always likely to be. The deck seems to be the biggest risk as it gets fresh water damp and thus is prone to rot. I am going to replace my deck this year if I can get the boat into my shed.

All in all I would say that is a lovely boat which should give you loads of enjoyment. If you are prepared to put a bit of work in with a sander and some varnish she will impress everyone who sees her.

 

[TimBennet]

Hillyard have a very good owners association with an active Yahoo group. Over there you will be amongst friends who will never question your sanity.

They also know a lot about Hillyards.

 

[Eyore]

Us wooden boat owners let the heart rule which is why we connect with our boats in a different way to owners of more modern stuff, so that's that taken care of
A week or so before launching you could hose down the boat inside to help swell the timbers and sprinkle salt in the higher areas under bunk sides which will retain moisture,it can be washed off later. Just make sure the pump is ok and have a few buckets handy,they usually take up after a few days.
If you are not going to get her surveyed, its worth paying a shipwright for an hours poking around just for a peace of mind.
Good luck with the purchase and stick up some pics.

 

[Kukri]

The weak point in many two and a half tonners is just inside the companionway, painted green and labelled Stuart Turner.

Apart from that, the usual advice is get her afloat and sail her before doing anything beyond what is needed to get her afloat. Then, next winter, do what you have found needs to be done.

A short reading list would include Michael Verney's "Boat repairs and conversions" or any of his other books, the new edition of FB Cooke's "Cruising Hints" by Dick Wynne, "Surveying and Restoring Classic Boats" by JC Winters and "Wooden Boats" by John Scarlett (who founded the Old Gaffers Association).

 

[rosewood]

Hillyard have a very good owners association with an active Yahoo group. Over there you will be amongst friends who will never question your sanity.

They also know a lot about Hillyards.

Good facebook page too

 

[PhillM]

Where is she? If she is Hamble or theirabouts based, I can recommend a decent shipwright to go over her for you. And a surveyor who knows wood (Chrissie of this parish).

 

[Georgio]

Thanks for all the support and suggestions, I'm going to take a poke around next week to check for any soft bits.

 

[ripvan1]

A mate was working on a wooden boat recently and tied some dust sheets around the hull and kept a sprinkler damping these while doing the work, this could help if it's going to be a while before launching.

 

[sideshowbob]

I have one in my shed that we bought last year (a 2.5 ton hillyard), which one and where is yours?

I have always wanted a small classic boat (to go with my beard although I don't smoke a pipe) but have resisted until now, However a little 2 1/2 Ton Hillyard has come to my attention and it's a pretty wee thing.

While it is going to cost me far more than its worth to get it moved, ready to sail them launched it does tug at the heartstrings.

Can I ask a few questions...

1. The boat has been ashore for a couple of years and the planks have dried out, although not alarmingly. How likely is it to take up once afloat and not leak too badly or should I be prepared to recaulk? This is perhaps impossible to tell?

2. Are there any known week points that I should be looking for beyond checking for soft planks, cracked ribs etc. There is no point in getting such a cheap boat surveyed and I'm a reasonably practical. I have been on the Hillyard owners website but there is surprisingly little info about these boats.

3. How do I explain to the wife I have bought another boat?

4. How do I explain to the racing crew on my plastic classic that I have bought another boat rather that the new spinnaker that is needed.

 

[Woodlouse]

Unless your prepared to lose everything you put into it then get a survey done. It doesn't have to be a complete ore purchase job but to get a surveyor to take a quick look at it should give you enough to know whether or not your looking at a complete lemon. Like it or not getting a survey is always the cheaper option when buying a wooden boat.

 

[Georgio]

I have one in my shed that we bought last year (a 2.5 ton hillyard), which one and where is yours?

Not bought it yet, going to take a look shortly.

 

[Georgio]

Unless your prepared to lose everything you put into it then get a survey done. It doesn't have to be a complete ore purchase job but to get a surveyor to take a quick look at it should give you enough to know whether or not your looking at a complete lemon. Like it or not getting a survey is always the cheaper option when buying a wooden boat.

For the value I really don't think it's worth paying for a surveyor but I am taking a knowledgeable ex-wooden boat owner with me to provide a more experienced pair of eyes.

 

[NUTMEG]

I know next to nothing about wooden boats. But I do know that heart should rule head where boats are concerned. I WANT MY GAFFER BACK! Sob sob :-(

 

[old_salt]

As you say she "There is no point in getting such a cheap boat surveyed"
That may be so, but with your friend have a good look in the turn of the bilge and around the mast step for any soft wood and broken ribs check out the floors and around the keel bolts in the hog if she has one, also the wood around shaft log and it's gland for good packing it may be worth re-packing if it is a packed glad before she goes in the water a bit of a rotten job to do when she is in, also check the joint from the hog to the stern post and rudder pintails fixings, another point is the joint from the hog to the stem these should be good and solid all checked from the inside and the outside.
Small splits in her planking along the grain are not too much of a problem its the ones across the grain that are the no no,
a small bradawl or electrical screwdriver will help with finding any soft wood but don't prod too deep into the surface before you pay the man his money.
If she is reasonably tight on her seems with only a few cracks in the seems avoid recalling unless it is falling out and gone to dust, any new "caulking" don't caulk too hard, if she does not need any urgent remedial work, get her on a launching trolley or in a hoist supported at her water level in SALT water and let her take up it may take a few hours or a couple of days. Make sure you have removed any venerable items that are low down to above her water line just to save them getting wet if she does take on much water don't worry too much if it gets in just as long as you have a good pump to pump it out.

As for :-
4. How do I explain to the racing crew on my plastic classic that I have bought another boat rather that the new spinnaker that is needed.

Tell them you have bought a real boat.
Enjoy.
Please let us know how it all goes with pics if possible.
Cheers David.

 

[chinita]

Nowt else to add to the sensible comments except to offer more encouragement.

Even baling out whilst she is taking up will be fun!

As for your missus; wait until the boat is nice and fettled then go off for a quiet weekend together. Quiet anchorage, oil lamps, bottle (or two) of wine..........if she does not fall for that - change your missus!

 

[Seajet]

I knew someone with a 2,1/2 ton Hillyard; nice boat but do be prepared for a whole different league in speed terms, you won't exactly have to strap yourself down for warp speed !

The one I knew leaked from the big cockpit step job, I'd check that area thoroughly; also it wasn't for nothing that the owner asked her electrician Dad to design a bilge pump hours counter, and this was a smartly kept example !

Real ' Swallows & Amazons ' stuff though, enjoy.

 

[Georgio]

I knew someone with a 2,1/2 ton Hillyard; nice boat but do be prepared for a whole different league in speed terms, you won't exactly have to strap yourself down for warp speed !

I don't think anyone would buy an old Hilliard if you are concerned about speed.

 

[diapason]

I saw her advertised too - there's also a nice looking Hillyard 26 footer and a Folkboat all for under a grand. I definitely can't at the moment, but good luck!

 

[Georgio]

Just as a follow up, we have had a good look (and poke) around and apart from a couple of cracked ribs and three bits of planking that need to be replaced she seems to be in pretty sound condition, although needing a lot of tidying and replacement of some missing bits and bobs, oh and probably a new engine (outboard initially). I am quite sure the list will get longer.