30boat
N/A
I almost never partially roll my (very nice) Kemp genoa.Instead I set a smaller foresail after reefing down the main once (removable forestay).I'm aware it's more laborious but IMHO it pays to do it this way.How many of you do it?
Headsails,How do you do?
- Thread starter 30boat
- Start date
damo
Well-Known Member
It pays to do it possibly, unless you only have one, furling, foresail, which is what most people have I suspect.
If you don't race, don't go out in rough weather, are a gentleman and don't go to windward..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
If you don't race, don't go out in rough weather, are a gentleman and don't go to windward..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
roly_voya
Well-Known Member
So why pay all that money and sufer the windage and compramises in setting that the furler entails. Just use hanked sails then you dont need to set up the removable forestay untill you really need a very small sail set further inboard.
damo
Well-Known Member
Because for most of the time, for most people, a roller furler is the easiest solution.
"Just use hanked sails" means at least 3 sails, with the storage and dragging about that entails , not to mention the foredeck dance in conditions you least want to be there. For most folk it just ain't worth it.
My newish padded luff genoa is pretty good with the first reef (and would be even better except for the cr*p sheeting angle on my boat) and much more than that I would be thinking about setting my inner stay anyway.
But then I expect you know all the arguments anyway.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PS How are your preparations going for the great escape?
"Just use hanked sails" means at least 3 sails, with the storage and dragging about that entails , not to mention the foredeck dance in conditions you least want to be there. For most folk it just ain't worth it.
My newish padded luff genoa is pretty good with the first reef (and would be even better except for the cr*p sheeting angle on my boat) and much more than that I would be thinking about setting my inner stay anyway.
But then I expect you know all the arguments anyway.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PS How are your preparations going for the great escape?
roly_voya
Well-Known Member
Boat should be more or less finished by this spring, off to Brest this year then Spain next work permitting. Cant set off permenantly untill the youngest is settled at uni so that as far as plans can go at the moment. I agree that for most people a roller is well worth the compramise it was just that 30boat said he hardly ever used it as a roller just as a furler and there are more eficient ways of furling/dropping sails. Its less work to change a hanked sail than to furl the headsail then set up an inner forstay and set a sail on it which is what he seams to be doing.
William_H
Well-Known Member
In our yacht club and attempting to race there are a few who have roller reefing/ furling headsails. All the rest have hanked on with one exception of a non rolling twin slot foil. Without exception the performance to windward is dismal. I can set a tiny jib if I suspect any wind is coming and run rings around them even when under canvassed.
At least one friend had roller reefing and reverted to hanked on jibs on a 20 fter. olewill
At least one friend had roller reefing and reverted to hanked on jibs on a 20 fter. olewill
Piddy
Well-Known Member
Surely the size of the sail starts to have a big influence on the decision. Our genoa is about 550 sq ft. It's enough of a struggle putting it on the foil at the beginning of the season let alone every time I want to sail - particularly as I sail only with SWMBO.
To expect her to start hanking on sails I can barely lift would be a bit too much.
Storing several huge sails would be quite an issue. I don't have a dedicated sail cabin - which is what I'd need to keep several jibs.
I started life on boats that only had hanked on sails and wouldn't consider it now. I'm more than happy with a good quality Sanders furling genoa with a padded luff - it sets well even when reefed and is an excellent compromise that works well for us.
Cheers
Andy
To expect her to start hanking on sails I can barely lift would be a bit too much.
Storing several huge sails would be quite an issue. I don't have a dedicated sail cabin - which is what I'd need to keep several jibs.
I started life on boats that only had hanked on sails and wouldn't consider it now. I'm more than happy with a good quality Sanders furling genoa with a padded luff - it sets well even when reefed and is an excellent compromise that works well for us.
Cheers
Andy
Robin
Well-Known Member
You are on the bubble of boat size and sail size where either option is feasible.
We used to sail and occasionally race a Liz 30 many moons ago and had a full suit of headsails from a full hoist deck sweeping lightweather genoa, genoa, blade/working jib and storm jib. Individually they gave the best possible performance - IF the right one was set. When cruising, we were often in company with an identical boat that had a roller reefing genoa and realistically the difference in passage times was little. The reason being that we would have to change headsails, say from No1 down to No2 as the wind piped up, and distance previously gained was lost during the headsail changes. Likewise when the wind decreased, we would wait a bit longer to be sure before changing back to No1 whereas our friends just rolled or unrolled theirs.
Later we bought a Westerly 33 ketch which came with separate headsails. After I did the first rough trip headsail change I installed roller reefing because the sails were now big and clumsy for one person to handle on a bucking deck. But then yours is a fractional rig, with smaller lighter sails.
Now we sail a 41ft masthead cruiser/racer with big powerful sails. The genoa is a 2-person weight and hard enough to manage in the berth when folded neatly and in it's bag, changing it at sea is not an option for us as just a me and her crew but if we had a race crew on board it might be different! However we do have a removeable cutter stay, backed up by proper running backstays and separate sheet tracks for both a staysail and a storm jib. The staysail and deep reefed mainsail is good for upwind in a gale, should anyone feel like doing it which I no longer do, even if I didn't mind the loss of nookie that would surely follow...
So in practice we roll the genoa when needed and the staysail stays in it's bag. We have a triradial cut genoa made from Spectra/Dyneema reinforced Dacron. This reefs pretty well and in reality any loss of pointing goes unnoticed as the seastate usually means we would need to bear off that amount anyway, but as our boat is very closewinded anyway we are still able to sail at the same apparent angle as most cruising boats achieve in light weather. We used to find for example our W33 sailed best at around 35degs apparent whereas with our current one the optimum is 28degs apparent but we can still go to 22degs in calm seas, albeit with the VMG no better than at 28 as the boatspeed has dropped a tad. When the genoa is rolled more than a few rolls, say to working jib size, then we need to bear away to around 35degs apparent but then that is what the seastate requires (and what we used to do at BEST on the W33) so it matters little.
The above relates to upwind ability comparisons. Off the wind is a different ball game and why change headsail at all if you have a roller system.
We used to sail and occasionally race a Liz 30 many moons ago and had a full suit of headsails from a full hoist deck sweeping lightweather genoa, genoa, blade/working jib and storm jib. Individually they gave the best possible performance - IF the right one was set. When cruising, we were often in company with an identical boat that had a roller reefing genoa and realistically the difference in passage times was little. The reason being that we would have to change headsails, say from No1 down to No2 as the wind piped up, and distance previously gained was lost during the headsail changes. Likewise when the wind decreased, we would wait a bit longer to be sure before changing back to No1 whereas our friends just rolled or unrolled theirs.
Later we bought a Westerly 33 ketch which came with separate headsails. After I did the first rough trip headsail change I installed roller reefing because the sails were now big and clumsy for one person to handle on a bucking deck. But then yours is a fractional rig, with smaller lighter sails.
Now we sail a 41ft masthead cruiser/racer with big powerful sails. The genoa is a 2-person weight and hard enough to manage in the berth when folded neatly and in it's bag, changing it at sea is not an option for us as just a me and her crew but if we had a race crew on board it might be different! However we do have a removeable cutter stay, backed up by proper running backstays and separate sheet tracks for both a staysail and a storm jib. The staysail and deep reefed mainsail is good for upwind in a gale, should anyone feel like doing it which I no longer do, even if I didn't mind the loss of nookie that would surely follow...
So in practice we roll the genoa when needed and the staysail stays in it's bag. We have a triradial cut genoa made from Spectra/Dyneema reinforced Dacron. This reefs pretty well and in reality any loss of pointing goes unnoticed as the seastate usually means we would need to bear off that amount anyway, but as our boat is very closewinded anyway we are still able to sail at the same apparent angle as most cruising boats achieve in light weather. We used to find for example our W33 sailed best at around 35degs apparent whereas with our current one the optimum is 28degs apparent but we can still go to 22degs in calm seas, albeit with the VMG no better than at 28 as the boatspeed has dropped a tad. When the genoa is rolled more than a few rolls, say to working jib size, then we need to bear away to around 35degs apparent but then that is what the seastate requires (and what we used to do at BEST on the W33) so it matters little.
The above relates to upwind ability comparisons. Off the wind is a different ball game and why change headsail at all if you have a roller system.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
I only have one headsail, made by Arun Sails Ltd and it sets surprisingly well when partly furled. I sometimes consider reverting to hanked on sails because I read horror stories of furling gear breaking but the advantage of being able to quickly reduce the sail area when sailing single-handed in crowded waters overcomes my fears. I would also like to have a removable inner forestay for setting a storm jib but haven't got round to it yet.