Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
10mm on my 31 - less friction.
Headsail sheet bowlines catching on rigging during tacks. Remedy?
- Thread starter fredrussell
- Start date
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
With due respects-- Should sheets be rigged so that they are allowed to fray in the first place?
I am not baiting you in particular- so please do not bite-- it was just that your comment prompted me-----
I often help lay up boats at our club & it amazes me how poorly people have their sheets etc rigged. Bits of string tied hap haphazardly all over the place with awful knots, frayed unwhipped ends & friction making life so hard. Pullies stuck with salt & winches barely able to turn.
Already in this post forumites explain that they have problems tacking. That would be something that I would want to solve very early on. Leaving a sail so long that it needs the wind to pull it round (as suggested in one post above) just means hard work sheeting it in after the sail is clear- does it not?
Just spoils the sailing experience .
Neeves
Well-Known Member
See the current thread
'Thanks Neeves - made new snubber', Post No 2
We have been using the sheet for maybe 10 years now - no issues. It is, they are, a dyneema sheet, with the dyneema joint. We have 2 sheets constructed this was for our 150% genoa and our screecher (sort of Code Zero).
Jonathan
We have used cow hitch for years, never slipped - quite the opposite. I don't quite see the point of soft shackles in this application. The knot is something else to get hung up, and you are adding something extra to go wrong. But if it works for you - go for it. Most applications are similar - but unique.
'Thanks Neeves - made new snubber', Post No 2
We have been using the sheet for maybe 10 years now - no issues. It is, they are, a dyneema sheet, with the dyneema joint. We have 2 sheets constructed this was for our 150% genoa and our screecher (sort of Code Zero).
Jonathan
We have used cow hitch for years, never slipped - quite the opposite. I don't quite see the point of soft shackles in this application. The knot is something else to get hung up, and you are adding something extra to go wrong. But if it works for you - go for it. Most applications are similar - but unique.
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[70521]
Well-Known Member
That's no been my experience. The genny came off the boat last summer as the mast was down and had not moved a mm. Then the sail is next off the mast, 2021, I expect the same.
I strongly recommend a cow hitch.
Old Bumbulum
Well-Known Member
Equally, checking your gear ensures no frayed sheet ever gets close to snapping...
Old Bumbulum
Well-Known Member
Neeves
Well-Known Member
For dyneema covers try
MARINE ROPES CATALOGUE - LANCELIN
No known connection - they just happened to have opened a production unit in Sydney (though I have no idea if they do covers) but they do in France
Jonathan
MARINE ROPES CATALOGUE - LANCELIN
No known connection - they just happened to have opened a production unit in Sydney (though I have no idea if they do covers) but they do in France
Jonathan
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
I have the same arrangement as seen in Viv's photo and it works very well. With existing sheets it is likely to be difficult or even impossible to make the eye splices on the ends that have had the bowlines. Its always harder to splice old rope, particularly if it has been knotted and pulled really tight. I would try eye splicing the ends that have only had stopper knots. Much depends on the type of rope whether it can be spliced or not. I have some Liros braid on braid that proved impossibly tightly woven, and some English Braids 16mm that was pretty easy. If you know the make and type of the sheets look up the manufacturers website to see what they say about ease of splicing.
EDIT: Try to wash any salt out of the rope before splicing and use fabric conditioner to soften it a bit.
EDIT: Try to wash any salt out of the rope before splicing and use fabric conditioner to soften it a bit.
KevO
Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree. Tried all sorts to get around the baby stay snarl up problem and this has proven to be the best solution so far coupled with good tacking technique to get the foresail through the gap handsomely.Our boat has a babystay in addition to shrouds. Tacking the genoa was always problematic with bowlines. For some years now we have had eye splices and a Dyneema shackle. Excellent solution that very rarely hangs up.
TLouth7
Well-Known Member
Perhaps counterintuitive but would longer bowlines improve matters? My thinking is that the bulk of the knot is further from the bulk of the clew, and also that there is more freedom for the knot to articulate and so free itself. As an added bonus you could try it without any drastic modifications.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Your comment is completely fair - it was many years ago and I would never let a sheet fray obviously again - and in that case I don’t know whether it was obviously frayed as I dont remember ever checking.
But it was a harsh lesson in difficult circumstances that helped make me love redundancy whenever possible - and two separate sheets is easy and no more expensive.
But my sailing philosophy became cheap and multiple systems instead of a single high quality solution with a low failure rate.
So I charge batteries with three possible sources, have old but doubled warps, three separate systems to cool the fridge, never maintain winches but have enough levers to lose any one at a time etc.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
Soft shackles don't come loose. That's really a false concern (I've used them on jibsheets for decades). They also don't fail on common-sized yachts, because we size then for handling, which makes them much stronger than the sheets.
I've also used cow hitches and bowlines. Metal shackles are for the birds (too dangerous and rough on the mast). They can all work. Sometimes it is the clew plate that is actually snagging.
I've also used cow hitches and bowlines. Metal shackles are for the birds (too dangerous and rough on the mast). They can all work. Sometimes it is the clew plate that is actually snagging.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I have been on a boat where the cow-hitched jibsheet kept slipping, we were racing at the time so it was annoying.
Many racing dinghies use a sheet with a line spliced into the middle, to form a Y. The jib or asy is tied to the short middle leg of the Y. The join will slide past the jib luff or mast or whatever better than anything else.
The other thing is, if the sheet you've just released has to be dragged around a winch or ratchet block or across a grippy deck, it will snag on things much more effectively than if it's really free to run.
Many racing dinghies use a sheet with a line spliced into the middle, to form a Y. The jib or asy is tied to the short middle leg of the Y. The join will slide past the jib luff or mast or whatever better than anything else.
The other thing is, if the sheet you've just released has to be dragged around a winch or ratchet block or across a grippy deck, it will snag on things much more effectively than if it's really free to run.
Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
I had a UFO27 which had a babystay. It didn't have the original 140% genoa, but one of about 115-120%. Even so it was at first problematic to tack cleanly, until I realised that a precise technique was required; - do not release the sheet until the sail collapses as the bow goes through the wind. At this point the clew drops towards the deck and clear of the babystay. allow the wind to start filling it on the new side, then sheet in vigorously, so as to get as much of the sheet in as possible before it fills and winching commences. Good maintenance is required to genoa-car blocks and the winches, so as to reduce friction to a minimum and allow the initial sheeting-in to be as quick as possible.On no account put tension on the new sheet before the old sheet has been released.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
If you look at my photo you will see that the knot is outside the sheets and soft shackle. There is no possibility of the knot catching the babystay. Having tried just about every possibility over many years I assure you that spliced sheets and a soft shackle is by far the most slippery arangement.
Our genoa is made of 150% heavy Vectran that is highly reluctant to tack. The arrangement shown, in combination with a tube on the babystay, is the best we have come up with.
Amulet
Well-Known Member
Lark's head/cow hitch = whatever you care to call it and one long sheet. never failed in my hands. I have a pal who crossed the Atlantic - there and back - without untying it and without anything breaking.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
No idea why you think it would slip, it hasn't done so yet and my boat weighs 10 tons or so. I also have no idea why you think it's unsuitable for loads, again, the boat weighs 10 tons or so.
Amulet
Well-Known Member
My cow hitch hasn't slipped in fifteen years. In fact it is a real problem to remove it when the sail need valeting.