Headlining - Hints and Tips Please

Tam Lin

Tam Lin

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So it has got to the point where all my bodge up repairs aren't working and I had to bite the bullet and replace the headlining in the fore cabin of my Centaur. Got the face off discs from Hawke House, mask, goggles etc. and had a go today. I bought discs for my electric drill and angle grinder to see which were more effective. Started with the drill, slow going, tried the angle grinder and much faster but destroyed the disc in about ten minutes! Is this usual? Carried on with the drill and did the same amount as the grinder and the disc is still intact but it took me much longer.
I tried different angles of the disc to the surface, it seemed the flatter the better.
How clean do I have to get the surface? It is a bit lumpy, was that me grinding it away or is it just like this?
Any hints and tips from anyone who has done this job will be appreciated.
 
Depends what you are going to put up.
In his Centaur my friend used vinyl covered 3mm ply panels screwed onto 5mm blocks. He cleaned off properly where the blocks were glued to the hull but otherwise just wire brushed off the loose stuff. 10 years later it still looks good however he put some thought into the order of assembly of the panels so as to hide joins.
I'm starting on mine tomorrow...
 
U
TC Tuckton said:
Depends what you are going to put up.
In his Centaur my friend used vinyl covered 3mm ply panels screwed onto 5mm blocks. He cleaned off properly where the blocks were glued to the hull but otherwise just wire brushed off the loose stuff. 10 years later it still looks good however he put some thought into the order of assembly of the panels so as to hide joins.
I'm starting on mine tomorrow...
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I was thinking about a like for like replacement. It will see me out! Good luck with yours!
 
TC Tuckton said:
Depends what you are going to put up.
In his Centaur my friend used vinyl covered 3mm ply panels screwed onto 5mm blocks. He cleaned off properly where the blocks were glued to the hull but otherwise just wire brushed off the loose stuff. 10 years later it still looks good however he put some thought into the order of assembly of the panels so as to hide joins.
I'm starting on mine tomorrow...
Click to expand...

That's how I did my Seadog but used 4mm ply and 10mm battens. Just cleaned to fibreglass where the battens sat, glued the battens on with "sticks like". Got the ply boards to a perfect fit/ alignment with a 3mm joint, covered the ply with vinyl and screwed them on with cups and screws. Looks great.
 
Tam Lin said:
So it has got to the point where all my bodge up repairs aren't working and I had to bite the bullet and replace the headlining in the fore cabin of my Centaur. Got the face off discs from Hawke House, mask, goggles etc. and had a go today. I bought discs for my electric drill and angle grinder to see which were more effective. Started with the drill, slow going, tried the angle grinder and much faster but destroyed the disc in about ten minutes! Is this usual? Carried on with the drill and did the same amount as the grinder and the disc is still intact but it took me much longer.
I tried different angles of the disc to the surface, it seemed the flatter the better.
How clean do I have to get the surface? It is a bit lumpy, was that me grinding it away or is it just like this?
Any hints and tips from anyone who has done this job will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

I gave up trying to get al lthe old adhesive off , using similar techniques, figuring that what I could not get off with a reasonable amount of effort could safely be left!

Although I stuck the new stiff directly to the GRP on the hull and cabin sides directly I stuck the roof lining on ply boards. Much easier and can be done with water based, but water resistant, PVA wood glue working on the sitting room floor!

And very smart it looks too! Boards supported by a combination of screws with button caps and Velcro.

( All adhesives and lining from Hawke House)

DSCF0854.jpg


DSCF0855.jpg
 
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Not on a Westerly, but I found replacement of the headlining fabric on ply panels relatively straightforward - and if the panels had not been there already, I think I'd have gone for that option. There is of course a slight headroom loss, but if that can be borne it's a simpler task IMO.
 
Hadenough said:
Loss of headroom is not that much of a problem. Battens give space for a decent thickness of insulation too.
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Yes, I nearly added that - to my post, and to the panels! I didn't bother with the latter in the end, though I think even the thin air gap helps a little. One other thing I'd add is that our panels did not have battens, as there is an inner moulded headlining anyway (it just doesn't look very special). I replaced most of the capped screws used to affix the original panels to the lining with epoxied 3M Dual Lock pads. Screws were confined to the wooden mouldings covering the panel joins, and a few at panel edges of particularly strong curvature.
 
Tam Lin, are you going to use a Hawke House pre sown kit?
How will you get it into place? Will you start around the forehatch and work outwards, downwards and forwards from there?
 
TC Tuckton said:
Tam Lin, are you going to use a Hawke House pre sown kit?
How will you get it into place? Will you start around the forehatch and work outwards, downwards and forwards from there?
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I haven't decided yet. I have a roll of foam lining in the attic and am wondering if I can use that. The step in the coach roof makes it all very interesting and I expect that a kit would make life easier. However, I am a bit worried about my skills in that area, don't want to make a pig's ear of things! The replies so far are making me think of panels etc. I wouldn't have to remove all the old foam and glue, which is very appealing!
 
Tam Lin said:
I haven't decided yet. I have a roll of foam lining in the attic and am wondering if I can use that. The step in the coach roof makes it all very interesting and I expect that a kit would make life easier. However, I am a bit worried about my skills in that area, don't want to make a pig's ear of things! The replies so far are making me think of panels etc. I wouldn't have to remove all the old foam and glue, which is very appealing!
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How long has it been in the attic? The foam deteriorates badly, so don't go fitting worn out vinyl. Personally I don't like foam backed anyway. Spend the time getting a good fit to the ply backing panels, which is easy but time consuming (but you can make as many mistakes / adjustments as you need) then there is no need for foam backed to hide the mistakes.
 
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Another thought. A lot if the builders used to glue the foam backed vinyl to the bare fibreglass roof moulding downside up, before they put the two halves together. What chance do you think you have of making it stick against gravity?
 
Hadenough said:
Another thought. A lot if the builders used to glue the foam backed vinyl to the bare fibreglass roof moulding downside up, before they put the two halves together. What chance do you think you have of making it stick against gravity?
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It's glued on with contact adhesive, spray on the foam and spread/comb it type on the grp so, immediate bond. Be very careful of the adhesive fumes, they are decidedly unhealthy in confined spaces - as I found out the hard way. Unfortunately, although pva type adhesives work well on wood panels, they won't give a permanent fix on grp.
 
When we refitted our ex-Evo 25, acetone cleaned most of the old glue off the forepeak deckhead (the only place foam backed vinyl was glued direct to the GRP) pretty well. To save trying to clean off the bits where it didn't, I glued a trail piece on. It stuck so well I had to scrape it off. After satisfyling myself with that test, I applied the new glue and vinyl straight over the patches of old glue.

Sticking it up against gravity, no problem. It's called contact adhesive for a reason.

On the glue, it's essential to use high temperature contact adhesive. Normal stuff may melt when the deckhead becomes hot in strong sunlight and the linings peel away.

All our materials came from Boyriven. Quite a large minimum order value but much cheaper than the rest if you need a decent amount and suppliers to Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Oyster, Fairline, etc., so choice and quality is exceptional.
 
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Hadenough said:
How long has it been in the attic? The foam deteriorates badly, so don't go fitting worn out vinyl. Personally I don't like foam backed anyway. Spend the time getting a good fit to the ply backing panels, which is easy but time consuming (but you can make as many mistakes / adjustments as you need) then there is no need for foam backed to hide the mistakes.
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It's only been in the attic for a year but I don't know how old it is as I acquired it secondhand. As far as I remember it is OK but I will have to check.
VicS, thanks for the pics, the idea of panels has some appeal but the cabin has a stepped roof and curves but it might be possible to do the horizontal surfaces. I will have to get on the boat and have a look and a think.
Anyway, thanks everyone, I think the best idea is to turn the boat upside down!
 
Simondjuk said:
On the glue, it's essential to use high temperature contact adhesive. Normal stuff may melt when the deckhead becomes hot in strong sunlight and the linings peel away.
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That's not the only problem with adhesives. Last winter I phoned around various manufacturers trying to find an alternative, preferably water based, to the one from Hawke House which it turns out has been specially formulated for them. No-one (except TGP who make for HH) would guarantee permanent adhesion with plasticised vinyl products as it's usually migration of the plasticiser which causes failure over time in the solvent based adhesives. Unfortunately, TGP will only supply that particular product to HH and no-one I spoke to had a water based product suitable for foam to grp.
 
Simondjuk said:
Sticking it up against gravity, no problem. It's called contact adhesive for a reason.
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Does that mean that once the first contact has been made you can't move the fabric again i.e. you can't adjust the positioning if it's not quite right? That must make it fiendishly difficult surely?
 
JimC said:
Does that mean that once the first contact has been made you can't move the fabric again i.e. you can't adjust the positioning if it's not quite right? That must make it fiendishly difficult surely?
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No its not that immediate (at least the hawke house stuff isn't) but in my experience you've got to reglue if you want to move it after 5 mins or so. The immediate grip is however strong enough to beat gravity once the whole piece has been stuck up.
 
one word against using wooden panels: Although they make the glueing and final fitting incredibly simple, actually making the panels the right size in the first place can be fiendishly difficult. In the end we decided it was easier to glue straight onto the GRP because you can cut the fabric to size after glueing and the old headlining can make a great template if its not become misshapen over time.
 
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