Haven Knox-Johnston nonsense

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The Third Man

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My boat has been damaged as a result of my neighbour's boat colliding with it. My boat was berthed and I was not on board at the time so obviously I am the innocent party. My neighbour has admitted liability.

It has taken over two months (Sept and Oct) for the necessary repairs to be completed. The repairs have necessitated
the removal of the pushpit
the removal of the stern light
the removal of the Furuno antenna
the disconnection of the lifeline that runs through the starboard stanchions and the removal of my liferaft

In addition to the cost of the repairs I have claimed for loss of use of the boat. Haven Knox-Johnston have told me today that their surveyor has advised them that my boat was never really unavailable for use. Clearly this is total nonsense.

They add that there is no provision for this type of compensation.

Has anyone any experience of this type of claim? It seems wrong that I can lose about two months's use of my boat and not have any form of compensation.
 
Doesn't sound like that little lot would take 2 months to do. Was the boat out of the water at any point? What would you consider to be the amount to be compensated?

IMHO it's claims like this that help push up premiums.
 
290man said:
My boat has been damaged as a result of my neighbour's boat colliding with it. My boat was berthed and I was not on board at the time so obviously I am the innocent party. My neighbour has admitted liability.

It has taken over two months (Sept and Oct) for the necessary repairs to be completed. The repairs have necessitated
the removal of the pushpit
the removal of the stern light
the removal of the Furuno antenna
the disconnection of the lifeline that runs through the starboard stanchions and the removal of my liferaft

In addition to the cost of the repairs I have claimed for loss of use of the boat. Haven Knox-Johnston have told me today that their surveyor has advised them that my boat was never really unavailable for use. Clearly this is total nonsense.

They add that there is no provision for this type of compensation.

Has anyone any experience of this type of claim? It seems wrong that I can lose about two months's use of my boat and not have any form of compensation.
Click to expand...

The point is not what your insurance will cover for it's what the other sides insurance will pay for.
Give him the bill and let him worry about it.
You may find that you should appoint your own loss adjuster, I would have done that right from the get go.
 
If is isn't covered by your insurance and you feel strongly enough about, then it sue the other boat owner - that's your right.

It would be interesting to find out how sympathetic the judge would be -I guess not very.
 
I lost most of last season due to my boat being written off by somebody else and couldn't get a penny of compensation for loss of use. Same insurer BTW.

Yoda
 
290man said:
My boat has been damaged as a result of my neighbour's boat colliding with it. My boat was berthed and I was not on board at the time so obviously I am the innocent party. My neighbour has admitted liability.

It has taken over two months (Sept and Oct) for the necessary repairs to be completed. The repairs have necessitated
the removal of the pushpit
the removal of the stern light
the removal of the Furuno antenna
the disconnection of the lifeline that runs through the starboard stanchions and the removal of my liferaft

In addition to the cost of the repairs I have claimed for loss of use of the boat. Haven Knox-Johnston have told me today that their surveyor has advised them that my boat was never really unavailable for use. Clearly this is total nonsense.

They add that there is no provision for this type of compensation.

Has anyone any experience of this type of claim? It seems wrong that I can lose about two months's use of my boat and not have any form of compensation.
Click to expand...

Your point is not quite clear to me. Your neighbour's insurer has fixed your boat and paid all material and labour costs - yes? IE reinstated you to the position you were in before your neighbour collided with you.

You could have applied also for recompense for travel to supervise the work etc etc - be creative, you are the injured party. But expressed as loss of pleasure is not likely to be assessable aqainst the terms of a normal marine policy, so will be dismissed. To check this out you could ask your own insurer whether they know of any provision being applied in claims they handle: I would not expect the answer to be positive.

BTW - distressing to hear of your loss, it could so easily happen to any of us - worse when there's no admission from the culprit to help us keep our NCB !!

PWG
 
Been there, done that, got the "T" shirt. You are not claiming for loss of use. You are claiming for the reasonabler expenses thast you must pay out whilst unable tyo use the vessel. i.e. You have to pay a berth, say 350 per month, but can not use it as the boat is being repaired. You claim from the other party and submit the claim with a statement of what it's fopr. You can't claim loss of pleasure etc.
 
290man said:
My boat has been damaged as a result of my neighbour's boat colliding with it. My boat was berthed and I was not on board at the time so obviously I am the innocent party. My neighbour has admitted liability.

It has taken over two months (Sept and Oct) for the necessary repairs to be completed. The repairs have necessitated
the removal of the pushpit
the removal of the stern light
the removal of the Furuno antenna
the disconnection of the lifeline that runs through the starboard stanchions and the removal of my liferaft

In addition to the cost of the repairs I have claimed for loss of use of the boat. Haven Knox-Johnston have told me today that their surveyor has advised them that my boat was never really unavailable for use. Clearly this is total nonsense.

They add that there is no provision for this type of compensation.

Has anyone any experience of this type of claim? It seems wrong that I can lose about two months's use of my boat and not have any form of compensation.
Click to expand...

I'm no insurance expert but I believe that what you are trying to claim for is consequential damages. My policies one with HKJ and the other with Pantaenius don't cover that and both my boats have been unavailable owing to repairs needed because of others clouting and damaging the boats.
If you policy covers this then great otherwise you're not covered.
Others may know more.
 
Been in and around boat-yards for most of my life, can not believe how long the repair, as stated, took. Think that I would demand compensation for that!
 
290man said:
Haven Knox-Johnston have told me today that their surveyor has advised them that my boat was never really unavailable for use. Clearly this is total nonsense.
Click to expand...

It may be clearly nonsense to you but I'm afraid that on the basis of the info you have given it is by no means clear to me. If the case you presented to the insurer is as compelling, it's little surprise they knocked it back.

If you are adamant that the position is as you summarise it, you could try the Insurance Ombudsman (part if the Financial Services Commission). Even the threat of them sometimes brings insurers to heel:
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/
 
Georgio said:
I had a large claim with HKJ this year, boat was out of the water for about three months, it never even occurred to me that I could claim for lack of use.

Is this even possible?
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Yes, it is part of your loss and you can claim it from the other party. Your insurance policy may not cover it but that's not relevant to whether you are entitled to compensation from the other party.

Boo2
 
ChrisE said:
I'm no insurance expert but I believe that what you are trying to claim for is consequential damages. My policies one with HKJ and the other with Pantaenius don't cover that and both my boats have been unavailable owing to repairs needed because of others clouting and damaging the boats.
If you policy covers this then great otherwise you're not covered.
Others may know more.
Click to expand...


That is my belief too. Consequential loss is almost impossible to quantify because for one person it may be zero (was away working and couldn't use the boat) and for another everything (boat was due to depart on RTW rally and missed the start). It sounds here as if the boat could have perhaps been used and the repairs delayed until a time convenient to the owner, but in any case consequential loss is never included.
 
Agree with most here. Consequential loss would not normally be covered unless you can show a clear financial loss. For example if you had booked flight tickets to go to the boat for a holiday and could not use them because the boat was out of action you might stand a chance.

The value of just not being able to use your boat for a period while it was being repaired does not result in a quantifiable loss. Think about in the same way of your car insurance. The provision of a replacement car is often specifically included and you pay a higher premium to get that benefit. No yacht insurance provides a similar benefit - for obvious reasons.

Don't think you will get very far trying to sue the other party direct. He has done what he is required to do - put your boat back in the condition it was before he damaged it.
 
In order to claim, you must demonstrate loss. Did you have to pay for alternative boat usage?, did you make it clear at the very beginning that you have firmed plans to use the boat to go to certain places with friends and family? did you have to make alternative plans?
 
Your boat has been repaired without too much hassle. I would be greatful for that. Is it really fair to then sue the owner who accidentally hit you? Imagine if your gear cable snapped and you clouted a superyacht. What would happen if they sued you, personally, for £500,000 for loss of use for 3 or 4 weeks!

I must point out that I'm not an insurance expert, and that I'm just guessing how it works. I also believe in karma.
 
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