Have Chart tables become a waste of space?

should only dogs drive boats & all other animals banned

  • yes

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  • no

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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Now I have a chart table, albeit a purpose made A1 board mounted on the bridge I use it, not because I have to, but because I choose to, I enjoy it and its good seamanship. I 'fess to doing three point fixes and all that, for fun. The children were mystified, then fascinated when it was explained to them. SWMBO liked to be able to look over from the wheel to be told "we are here" with my dividers on the relevant spot.
 
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... I've lost count of the number of times over the last 30 years when electronics have let me down ...

[/ QUOTE ]Sure but "30 years" is the relevant phrase. The new gear that has arrived in the past 5 years has proven infinitely more reliable and the cost has spiraled downwards. I confess to liking paper, but for fun and as a crude backup, I'm happy to depend on modern dedicated marine electronics with backup systems, but NOT laptop computers as 1) they are not marinised and 2) they run Windows.
 
I havent voted because I was limited to one answer only.

In dock, the chart table is a useful 'clean' area for computers, desk work, leaving the camera, books etc,.

Once at sea it is 'my' area, Crew are entitled, indeed invited, to do nav stuff but nothing else.

The chart table has the PC, paper chart of wherever we are, and logbook laid out with an imaginary electric fence around it. This prevents anybody putting cups, books, suncream, tools or anything not associated with the navigation of the boat. They do so at their peril!
 
My chart table resembles an explosion in an Oxfam shop most of the time. But then I have a chartplotter, a backup chartplotter and a nav PC, so it can afford to be.

Adjacent to the galley as it is, it's also a great place to put plates, etc on whilst preparing the food
 
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Must say that I am staggered that there are would be serious sailing people out there who would even consider not backing up the electronic systems with their own plots and calcs!

A good chart table is still one of the serious selection criteria I use when choosing a new boat.

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I dont think anyone is disagreeing that electronics can let you down at a bad time.

But I also think that, now we have charts on a cartridge the size of your thumb, carrying paper charts is a PIA, 9unless your cruising area is limited.

To carry admiralty paper charts, (rather than Imray), for the trip I am doing would have cost well over £2,000. I've got the whole of the Med, and part of the red Sea on cartrdges for 2 plotters for about £800.. plus Imray charts takes it up to about £1,000.

If 3 separate GPS systems tell me that I am at X, and I'm heading towards Y, and my eyeballs concur, I'm happy that that is where I am.

Where you might be in trouble is, if you are somewhere like the channel between The Skerries and Anglesey, with a tide running, (with you I'd hope), and you need to steer 300 to make 065, and the whole lot packs up, (e.g. GPS is lost).

So that's a passage which you might do either at slack water, or you might take the decision to plot furiously, even if your gizmos are working.

I have a good chart table, but it's more of an office and entertainment centre - easily convertible back to chart table if necessary, but the saloon table would be fine for chartwork, and under the bunks in the fore, or aft, cabins, would be fine for storing charts. Thus freeing up an area large enough for a small heads/shower, or a little workshop area, or more storage, (yes please), or whatever.
 
Richard has put together a good post there .... which I think illustrates the way boats are going ...

They may have got bigger - here I'm referring to starter and average boat size ... but requirements for comfort have expanded such that the old "working boat" interior has been left behind. No longer do you have sea-berths and chart table ... pitiful galley and a squeezed on loo .... now its big beds and saloon tables to grace your home with ... The humble boating interior ?

The boating public has evolved in those that want more for their pound / euro etc. This includes size.

We find boats of reasonable size and value - where the owner is more scrooge than I !! (That is near impossible some say !!)

So what happens - as Plotters are now extremely reliable - the cost beats paper folio easily. So boaters end up with only essential charts "surrounding" the cruise area ... plus probably a large area chart to join them up - IF lucky.

I admit that my trek across the Baltic was done without up to date full paper charting ... Much was cancelled charts, supplemented by prints of the PC charts ... Checked on Plotter.
In the islands we were so admiring that scenery and awesome location - paper plots was last on our minds ... so Mr. Lowrance had the job ......... and a very fine job it did as well.

For most boaters - you are proceeding from one known point to another ... rarely so far out of sight to really need a plot. Second being a trip you have probably made before - you know that if you steer xxx you'll arrive near enough at point blah blah blah ...

Blimey I posted a joke one time about crossing the english channel. If going to France and all electronics fails and you only have Compass ... steer south ! You'll hit France .... and steer north to get back !!

I do feel that too much insistence is placed on his matter ... and each reaches their natural / sensible level for them ... Witness an old Morecambe Bay Fisherman I knew ... and his son ... no charts, no dividers .... didn't matter fog / clear etc. - they fished ... they both reckoned they could follow their nose home !! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chart Table - yep still reckon they look nice ...
 
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I'm just not as trusting as you Richard.

Maybe it's because I work in IT, I do not trust anything electronic, just when you need it, it fails on you.

I'm pretty sure it's the 1st law of computing :-)

For this reason and others I tend to always work on paper and use the plotter as a check to see if my chart work is ok.

So IMO a chart table is essential.

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When calculators first came out, I used to check the answers on my slide rule or with log tables - don't bother any more. I'm getting to that stage with gps, plotters etc.

The market will dictate. You try and buy a slide rule or log tables now. Will be the same with paper charts before long.
 
"Are chart tables a waste of space"
Definitely not. It's the only space I can call my own and tell SHMBO that it's not the place for Handbags, Plates, Cups, Hats etc.

Capt H - "Is the skipper who doesn't use his chart table a waste of space? "
Similar was said about Sextant then RDF. Things move on, it won't be too far in the future that you won't be able to get paper chats.

OAM - "electronic systems and seawater make the worse possible bedfellows"
Soggy charts aren't too good either.
 
In that case, do you have any (slightly) out of date charts -English Channel - that yer don't want anymore, 'cos I can't afford up to date ones? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Having said that, I tend to agree with you re market forces, I bought 2 UK atlases in WH Smiths a year back, they were the previous years and were going for 75p each! down from £9.99. When I asked why so cheap the guy behind the till said " GPS innit".
 
Why do boat builders insist on wasting an enormous amount space with the chart table? I never use the sofa at the table. Underway I navigate standing up, and for passage planning I use the saloon table. My own boat has a standing desk and that is more than sufficient.
 
You see, this is a rubbish poll. No offense. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I bought my boat knowing it had a rubbish chart table, inadequate even to hold a single large mixed kebab unwrapped.
So why did I buy it?
Because, in my poor price range, I think that one day, I will be able to afford to replace the rubbish chart table with a proper one.

Other than that, my boat is nearly perfect, except its not very fast. Which is rubbish really.
 
Always used the saloon table anyway. chart table is a pretentious bit of tosh on my boat - but it has a lid & is a good dry place to store manuals, drawing stuff etc. but nowhere near deep enough to carry even my small selection of 30 odd paper charts!

Anyhow, old laptop, Tsunamis & gps mouse is what I use for on passage. and pre-planning is done with tide tables, paper charts & pilot books.
 
Hmmm. When going through my decision making process regarding the new craft, I turned one down outright because of wholly inadequate space for nav at a decent table with no alternative. Plus it looked like a bit of a barge too (the NB29). Much as I like Richards' 880 (and I spent much of yesterday crawling all over it!) i still like a bit of space for sitting down thinking and plotting. Hence my joy when i saw space available on the 1050, beautiful large table, comfie seat, perched up high with 360 degree vision through the saloon windows even in the worst weather, and a good view of the rig too! So at SBS yesterday got all the gizmos to go with it, a very good (IMHO) deal with Raymarine (A80 plotter, AIS radio), for viewing at the helm, and a yeoman plus for the table. Looked at standard horizon 300 but could not get on with fiddly joystick thingy, bowled over by picture quality (and price!) of latest Garmin offerings
 
A good seaman should have some form of back up paper charts on board if they're running electronics. Electronics are not 100% reliable yet, hence why by MCA code, any vessels that are coded by maritime law have to carry paper charts.

Insurance companies are slowly catching on to this as well. If you were in fog and you crashed due to electronic plotter or laptop crashing, etc and you have no paper chart they won't pay out.

I've come across a fair few sailors that think they don't need paper charts they have electronics only to come in the following day or following week to buy some as they had a problem with their electronics.

A chart table can be utilised for other things as well even if you prefer to use electronics but having one allows you to have the space in case of needing to paper.

You have to be silly not to have any form of paper chart on board to cover your trip.

Anyone who puts 100% faith in electronics need to have a word with themselves lol

This is my opinion based on experience of people being stupid enough not to use paper charts
 
People have mentioned plotter/GPS failure, but nobody has mentioned the blocking or taking down of the satellite system, as was tested off Cornwall in ??July??? No matter how many backup devices you have then, you are fecked unless using paper....
 
I carry Imray charts for all the areas I sale, which I understand satisfies any legal or insurance requirements.

But unless you are going to the particular ports featured on the large scale chartlets, (and there arent that many on some charts), I think you could navigate just as well using a teatowel and the appropriate pilot books.

As has been said... this was a thread about the usefulness of chart tables - If you are in the rare situation where your electronics have gone down, you dont "need" a chart table, you need a paper chart and somewhere to work on it.

There are other systems on a boat which are more likely to break down than the elctronics, (engine failure, rigging failure, whatever), and we have all kinds of info and advice on jury rigs, or make do and mend, so why a saloon table, or galley worktop, or bunk with the foam mattress removed, or whatever isnt acceptable when the eltronics go down is beyond me.

To dedicate quite a large space to a chart table when it is either not used most of the time, or only used when the electronics go down, may be an inefficient use of space on some/many boats.
 
I guess this is a question for bigger boats. The concept of having a table dedicated to to chart plotting alone is alien to me, where else would I gut mackeral, prepare breakfast, disassemble engine parts or store unwashed dishes?
 
Given your scenario, paper charts are usable if you are in sight of land to take bearings.
If you are out of sight of land, then a sheet of graph paper will do equally well as you will be running on EP's unless you are also carrying a sextant and tables.
 
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