Haul or Nothing - Raising the Mainsail

Norman_E

Norman_E

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On re-reading Andrew Simpson's article "Haul or Nothing" on page 18 of June PBO I was struck by the assertion that someone who had moved up from a 40 foot boat to a 44 footer could not pull the mainsail up by hand even as far as the lower spreader. I have a 45 foot boat, and am no Hercules, in fact I have poor upper body strength, but regularly pull the fully battened mainsail up to a point about two feet above the upper spreader before using the electric winch to get it to the point where the first mark on the halyard reaches the clutch. At that point the sail needs to go up about three inches more and the winch handle achieves that and sets the luff tension. It seems to me that if the sail on any yacht to similar size cannot be pulled at least half way up the mast by hand, there is a problem of excessive friction. I have Rutgersen cars at the luff in place of the old plastic sliders, and they help, but were actually fitted to improve the chances of the sail dropping smoothly rather than to aid raising it.

Who can pull their mainsail all the way to the top, and on what size boat? Equally, who cannot get it half way?
 
Norman_E said:
On re-reading Andrew Simpson's article "Haul or Nothing" on page 18 of June PBO I was struck by the assertion that someone who had moved up from a 40 foot boat to a 44 footer could not pull the mainsail up by hand even as far as the lower spreader. I have a 45 foot boat, and am no Hercules, in fact I have poor upper body strength, but regularly pull the fully battened mainsail up to a point about two feet above the upper spreader before using the electric winch to get it to the point where the first mark on the halyard reaches the clutch. At that point the sail needs to go up about three inches more and the winch handle achieves that and sets the luff tension. It seems to me that if the sail on any yacht to similar size cannot be pulled at least half way up the mast by hand, there is a problem of excessive friction. I have Rutgersen cars at the luff in place of the old plastic sliders, and they help, but were actually fitted to improve the chances of the sail dropping smoothly rather than to aid raising it.

Who can pull their mainsail all the way to the top, and on what size boat? Equally, who cannot get it half way?
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37` all the way up, I do have fully battened main with friedrekson cars, slugs between the cars as I could not afford all cars
 
Mine's 38' but I can't get it up all the way.

When we let it down, it all falls into the lazy jacks, so I don't think friction is the only issue. We have quite a long boom, but I wouldn't think our boom is longer than yours. The only answer may be that I'm really not very strong.
 
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34', fractional rigged with a fairly large main. I can haul it all the way to the top by hand without much trouble, then put it on the winch just to tension. I think my parents use the winch much more, but I'm not sure how much because when we sail together I always do the job :)

Pete
 
36ftr - large main, std plastic cars. I can pull it nearly all the way up - about 2ft off the top. If I tried I could prob get it all the way, but no point in trying to strain things when Mr winch is there to help. Mine also falls really well now (didn't when new) when I give it a bit of angle on the topping lift.
 
Twister_Ken said:
It's not the size of the boat, it's not even the size of the sail. It's the sail's weight. Plus friction in the cars and the halyard sheaves. You can do something about friction, but you can do very little about the weight.
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You can make the Halyard a 2:1 purchase, works on any size boat to reduce the need for a winch except for tensioning. Seems the obvious thing when a sail gets to the point of being too heavy to hoist unaided.

Yoda
 
yoda said:
You can make the Halyard a 2:1 purchase, works on any size boat to reduce the need for a winch except for tensioning. Seems the obvious thing when a sail gets to the point of being too heavy to hoist unaided.

Yoda
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I wouldn't call that the obvious thing to do, surely the obvious thing to do is to use the handy winch once you can't pull it by hand!

I've sailed boats with 2:1 halyards, and thought hoisting was a pretty marginal benefit to be honest, the real benefit seemed to lie in getting the right luff tension but only needing half the load at the clutch, so it was less likely to slip.
 
Twister_Ken said:
.... Plus friction in the cars and the halyard sheaves. You can do something about friction .....
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Masthead rig, Rival 41C, I could get the main to just below the spreaders with worn out batten cars. I then replaced the main with on with sliders and got a bit higher, then cleaned out the track and lubricated with teflon. I can now get the main 3/4 of the way up the mast before I run out of puff. I am asthmatic.
 
Twister_Ken said:
It's not the size of the boat, it's not even the size of the sail. It's the sail's weight. Plus friction in the cars and the halyard sheaves. You can do something about friction, but you can do very little about the weight.
Click to expand...

Must be a pretty massive sail for someone to be unable to pick it up (on the quayside, in its bag) though. And you're only lifting the whole weight for the very end of the hoist.

Pete
 
Twister_Ken said:
It's not the size of the boat, it's not even the size of the sail. It's the sail's weight. Plus friction in the cars and the halyard sheaves. You can do something about friction, but you can do very little about the weight.
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Now you mention it, the boat came with a racing mainsail, which lives in the loft, and I can pick that one up with one hand. The cruising mainsail is just damned heavy.
 
flaming said:
I've sailed boats with 2:1 halyards, and thought hoisting was a pretty marginal benefit to be honest, the real benefit seemed to lie in getting the right luff tension but only needing half the load at the clutch, so it was less likely to slip.
Click to expand...

It's useful if it means you don't need the winch at all, as on our previous boat. Hoisting and reefing were both very quick and simple when they just took a quick tweak by hand, compared to the new boat where everything needs to be tensioned with a winch.

Pete
 
I am moderately decrepit and can mostly get the main on Cherry Ripe more or less up the mast before resorting to the winch. It's about 30 sq m, fully battened with Sailman batten sliders. Lubricating the slugs and sliders every few weeks helps quite a bit.
 
Yes,it is worth going to some trouble to really clean the inside of the track,and lube it thoroughly with some good stuff,it was like having a new boat to sail in my case,as it hadn't been done for 40 yrs!
 
So, although I can haul my sail up ok, it doesn't come down under its own weight. I have lazy jacks and a stack pack, so it would be nice if it did. Clearly I need to lubricate things - any tips? The rigs I'm used to lubing used a thick layer of tallow rubbed on with an old sock, so not really much help here :)

Pete
 
prv said:
Must be a pretty massive sail for someone to be unable to pick it up (on the quayside, in its bag) though. And you're only lifting the whole weight for the very end of the hoist.

Pete
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I once had the honour (?) of raising the main on Ceramco, one of Peter Blake's RTW boats. Took four of us on a coffee grinder. Mind, it would have stopped a bullet.
 
prv said:
So, although I can haul my sail up ok, it doesn't come down under its own weight. I have lazy jacks and a stack pack, so it would be nice if it did. Clearly I need to lubricate things - any tips? The rigs I'm used to lubing used a thick layer of tallow rubbed on with an old sock, so not really much help here :)

Pete
Click to expand...

I used some Silicon spray (not teflon as mentioned above, wrongly) initially on the slides and then a light finger dab of silicon grease on the slides as they were installed when the sail was bent on at the start of the season.

This winter I intend to really clean the slot when the mast is down. If your sail is going up easily a slide might be worn such that it only cocks off centre when the sail is lowered. I have found this on slides on and near headboards; worth checking.
 
prv said:
So, although I can haul my sail up ok, it doesn't come down under its own weight. I have lazy jacks and a stack pack, so it would be nice if it did. Clearly I need to lubricate things - any tips? The rigs I'm used to lubing used a thick layer of tallow rubbed on with an old sock, so not really much help here :)

Pete
Click to expand...
I use PTFE spray at the start of the season
 
Twister_Ken said:
I once had the honour (?) of raising the main on Ceramco, one of Peter Blake's RTW boats. Took four of us on a coffee grinder. Mind, it would have stopped a bullet.
Click to expand...

When I worked on Creighton's, putting up the main was either a case of keeping the punters busy for ten minutes playing with the winches or two of us jumping the halyard while someone tailed the winch.

We use 2:1 on our dinghy, mostly to greatly reduce stretch.
For bolt rope mains you can do worse than spray a generous amount of happy shopper furniture polish into the groove just before hoisting. (we have a main that is quite tight due to a repair).
On most yachts, I think friction is most of the problem.
Sheaves, crossed halyards, sides of the mast, deck organisers, laying on the deck etc etc.
Clutches are quite a source of drag even when open.
Having 'ergonomic' halyards that you pull down from slots in the mast means you can use a lot more force more easily than pulling at an awkward angle across the deck.
It pays to teach SWMBO to tail the halyard while steering.
 
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