Has the RNLI lost the plot?

Your adaptations do not include the tracks you mentioned and the extra strengthening of the frame.
In other words a total redesign to avoid collision hazards.

The other costs I have not mentioned yet because you still have not shown what the costs would be, let alone if it would work properly.

How do you know that your contraption idea has not been looked at anx determined not to be workable?
 
Sybarite said:
Except at Newcastle Co. Down it's a ramp launched boat.

As far as the 2m information is concerned IIRC it was a response to a request for info in the contact box.
Click to expand...
Indeed it is at high water but not when the tide goes out see attached photo I link does not work go to Newcastle FB page and look at photos

station has a Talus tractor and is due to receive a Shannon around 2020 as for your response from the RNLI contact page box while I would hope it would be correct I would not put total faith in it, when the headf of operations, the design team or a a Shannon coxswain tells you or me I will believe it


https://www.facebook.com/NewcastleR...884563557882/1721060224773646/?type=3&theater
[/Bhttps://scontent-lhr3-1.

xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-

?
 
Sybarite: a man based in France and yet his two main areas of concern seem to be the RNLI and Brexit, go figure. You will remain in the EU in France and you have the "best" rescue service. Why do you feel the need to concern yourself with what we get up to over here? I am happy with how my donations to the RNLI are spent, you clearly don't donate, so wtf has it got to do with you?
 
dogleg said:
Indeed it is at high water but not when the tide goes out see attached photo I link does not work go to Newcastle FB page and look at photos

station has a Talus tractor and is due to receive a Shannon around 2020 as for your response from the RNLI contact page box while I would hope it would be correct I would not put total faith in it, when the headf of operations, the design team or a a Shannon coxswain tells you or me I will believe it


https://www.facebook.com/NewcastleR...884563557882/1721060224773646/?type=3&theater
[/Bhttps://scontent-lhr3-1.

xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-

?
Click to expand...


Was the tide in or out when it was blowing a F.11?

Fifteen all....!!
 
CLB said:
Sybarite: a man based in France and yet his two main areas of concern seem to be the RNLI and Brexit, go figure. You will remain in the EU in France and you have the "best" rescue service. Why do you feel the need to concern yourself with what we get up to over here? I am happy with how my donations to the RNLI are spent, you clearly don't donate, so wtf has it got to do with you?
Click to expand...

If my posts irritate you I invite you not to read them. Otherwise I will post on whatever subjects I b...well please.
 
Mister E said:
Your adaptations do not include the tracks you mentioned and the extra strengthening of the frame.
In other words a total redesign to avoid collision hazards.

The other costs I have not mentioned yet because you still have not shown what the costs would be, let alone if it would work properly.

How do you know that your contraption idea has not been looked at anx determined not to be workable?
Click to expand...

You obviously have not opened the links that i posted otherwise you would not be posting such.....!

To make it easy for you it was in post #166.
 
I did read that it was designed for use in Ports and Marinas with no mention of beaches. Unless you are suggesting operating the unit outside of its design spec.
 
Sybarite said:
Was the tide in or out when it was blowing a F.11?

Fifteen all....!!
Click to expand...

I have no idea, never been there but the short slipway appears to be only for HW launching as the tide would seem to cover the beach. However it is possible that on that day would there have been enough run on the slipway for the boat to get momentum against the conditions? Either way launching would not have been easy but it was done. However I have experienced and seen launches by carriage Mersey's in similar conditions and Oakley's before that. I repeat I know of no occasion when a beach launched Mersey or earlier boats have been unable to launch.

I do not doubt your business expertise, I just wish you would acknowledge my experience and that of others with wide SAR experience. Attached photo gives a good idea of slipway.

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=ceb512f73d1e0ca7dfd82ef7c3e4a5a8&oe=59AD09AD
 
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Mister E said:
I did read that it was designed for use in Ports and Marinas with no mention of beaches. Unless you are suggesting operating the unit outside of its design spec.
Click to expand...

The video shows a boat being recovered and being launched on a beach. On sand and pebbles....

"There's none so blind......etc "
 
dogleg said:
I have no idea, never been there but the short slipway appears to be only for HW launching as the tide would seem to cover the beach. However it is possible that on that day would there have been enough run on the slipway for the boat to get momentum against the conditions? Either way launching would not have been easy but it was done. However I have experienced and seen launches by carriage Mersey's in similar conditions and Oakley's before that. I repeat I know of no occasion when a beach launched Mersey or earlier boats have been unable to launch.

I do not doubt your business expertise, I just wish you would acknowledge my experience and that of others with wide SAR experience. Attached photo gives a good idea of slipway.

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=ceb512f73d1e0ca7dfd82ef7c3e4a5a8&oe=59AD09AD
Click to expand...

I do not doubt that you and your family have extensive LB experience which I admire and am grateful for.

But this does not stop me challenging certain concepts where the model presented seems to me to be uneconomic or where a common sense alternative may exist.

When I suggested the idea of a travel hoist with tracks I had in mind a certain approach which was bound to be just as if not more manouvrable and certainly less complicated and thus cheaper to build. I had no idea that almost exactly the same idea already did exist - the Italian model - with the bonus that the framework folds down which would reduce windage - an objection you and others raised. IMH and very inexpert O it would need little adaptation to make it suitable for a lifeboat launch.

If people would think about the notion rather than having their knee-jerk reaction to what I suggest then it might become a constructive discussion. As far as I can see this system only has advantages compared with the RNLI carriage.
 
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I can understand why on first looking the Italian design would seem the part. However the spec does not say it is suitable for beach launching, also we do not know about use in high winds.
Do you know if the RNLI looked at this type of design with the obvious collision factor that the higher framework presents?
 
Sybarite said:
I do not doubt that you and your family have extensive LB experience which I admire and am grateful for.

But this does not stop me challenging certain concepts where the model presented seems to me to be uneconomic or where a common sense alternative may exist.

When I suggested the idea of a travel hoist with tracks I had in mind a certain approach which was bound to be just as if not more manouvrable and certainly less complicated and thus cheaper to build. I had no idea that almost exactly the same idea already did exist - the Italian model - with the bonus that the framework folds down which would reduce windage - an objection you and others raised. IMH and very inexpert O it would need little adaptation to make it suitable for a lifeboat launch.

If people would think about the notion rather than having their knee-jerk reaction to what I suggest then it might become a constructive discussion. As far as I can see this system only has advantages compared with the RNLI carriage.
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Clogher Head and Newcastle 's Mersey class lifeboats were launched in winds of Storm Force 10 to Hurricane Force 12 on 3 February 1994 when an 80ft trawler reported that she was taking water and required a pump. Both lifeboats were launched from a lee shore in horrific conditions within five minutes of each other around 1420, both with about 20 miles to go to the casualty. In such severe conditions both lifeboats had to reduce speed and both reported several items of equipment carried away or damaged during the service. They reached the scene at around 1550 and a helicopter lowered a pump to the casualty. Once the pump was running - and a small fire on the trawler dealt with - the trawler made her way to shelter in Carlingford Lough escorted by the Clogher head lifeboat, Doris Bleasdale. By 1550 the lifeboat was stood down but could not return to station because the appalling sea conditions there made it impossible to recover her. She remained in the Lough overnight. The Newcastle lifeboat, Eleanor and
Bryant Girling, was diverted to a second casualty, where a crew member had broken his arm, and did not return home until 1930. She too could not be recovered and was left overnight in the harbour.

Report of service in from 1994 edition of the Lifeboat. I have never been to Clogher but charts and other info show that they launch off an open beach by carriage. Boat is Mersey. Report mentions wind up to F12.
 
dogleg said:
Clogher Head and Newcastle 's Mersey class lifeboats were launched in winds of Storm Force 10 to Hurricane Force 12 on 3 February 1994 when an 80ft trawler reported that she was taking water and required a pump. Both lifeboats were launched from a lee shore in horrific conditions within five minutes of each other around 1420, both with about 20 miles to go to the casualty. In such severe conditions both lifeboats had to reduce speed and both reported several items of equipment carried away or damaged during the service. They reached the scene at around 1550 and a helicopter lowered a pump to the casualty. Once the pump was running - and a small fire on the trawler dealt with - the trawler made her way to shelter in Carlingford Lough escorted by the Clogher head lifeboat, Doris Bleasdale. By 1550 the lifeboat was stood down but could not return to station because the appalling sea conditions there made it impossible to recover her. She remained in the Lough overnight. The Newcastle lifeboat, Eleanor and
Bryant Girling, was diverted to a second casualty, where a crew member had broken his arm, and did not return home until 1930. She too could not be recovered and was left overnight in the harbour.

Report of service in from 1994 edition of the Lifeboat. I have never been to Clogher but charts and other info show that they launch off an open beach by carriage. Boat is Mersey. Report mentions wind up to F12.
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They do a fantastic job. As far as Clogher is concerned IIRC there are a lot of off-lying shoals.
 
I have an enormous sense of deja vue.

This is done to death every season with the same result.

The economics mean little to the RNLI. They take on a major role in SAR services for the UK and Eire.

As they are a well funded rich charity they spend whatever they need to carry out their function.

IIRC the rules for charities mean they have to spend minimum amounts in proportion the capital deposits.

They are in the fortunate position to be able to exceed these parameters should they wish to.

There is, IMHO, no point in making comparisons with any other SAR service, or being critical of how the RNLI is run UNLESS THEY FALL DOWN ON THE JOB!

As far as I can see they have never done that in their history.

We are fortunate to have the RNLI in its current form.

A little truism I am fond of is that it is easy to know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

IMHO, of course..........................
 
chanelyacht said:
Ive just checked that with two stations who operate SLRS Shannons. There is no such operating restriction in place either in SOPs or on the operator course.
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I have just put the question again to the RNLI.

However, simple common sense tells that there comes a time when it becomes impossible to launch into the teeth of a storm.

Two examples of this type of storm :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06AJkSD0HiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wffS2u2644


PS As they have not yet replied to my last email ( avoiding controversy before the AGM...??) maybe you would like to ask them officially for a response that they would be prepared to stand over.
 
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Sybarite said:
I have just put the question again to the RNLI.

However, simple common sense tells that there comes a time when it becomes impossible to launch into the teeth of a storm.

Two examples of this type of storm :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06AJkSD0HiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wffS2u2644


PS As they have not yet replied to my last email ( avoiding controversy before the AGM...??) maybe you would like to ask them officially for a response that they would be prepared to stand over.
Click to expand...

I referred your enquiry to our Engineering department who have informed me that we wouldn’t define this a wave height but can advise the maximum water depth that the SLRS rig is capable of operating to – that is 2.4 metres. Wave height would bring a breaking wave energy that may be excessive at well below 2 metres[/I]

I too have through a third party posed the question: this is the response. I trust you would agree that the Clogher and Newcastle launches previously referred to were in extreme conditions by a carriage system that the SLARS is designed to replace and improve upon.
 
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