Has the RNLI lost the plot?

Bru said:
The sun is still shining, there's some really interesting boats arriving, the beer is just the right temperature, life is good. Why worry? :D
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There are record temperatures today in France to the west: 35.5° in the SW, 29.5° at Brest, 32.8° at Nantes.

I suppose you are a climate change denier too...??
 
Mister E said:
How much will your idea cost?
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I don't know but I bet it is a fraction of the RNLI contraption.

And for those lifeboatmen who want to frame my suggestion they can do it alongside this : (watch the video)

http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/boat-lift/product-32061-478472.html


Motor_Sailor

Default Re: Has the RNLI lost the plot?

Quote Originally Posted by Sybarite
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A travel lift costs from £150k to £200k It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to adapt one for launching a boat : cradle and caterpillar tracks?
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This I think adequately demonstrates your depth of knowledge about the way the Shannon is deployed.

The moderators won't let my quote exactly what was said when I showed this idea to the crew of a beach launched boat crew!
I think they're going to have the quote framed in the crewroom.

No wonder accountants are held in such low esteem.

Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?478926-Has-the-RNLI-lost-the-plot/page4#l3Coi2QlqrkwUzrU.99


There are some maxims which I absorbed over my professional life :

- Those who say something can be done and those who say it can't are usually right.
- While some people are saying that something is impossible others get on with it.
- If you want something done give it to a busy person.
 
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Sybarite said:
There are record temperatures today in France to the west: 35.5° in the SW, 29.5° at Brest, 32.8° at Nantes.

I suppose you are a climate change denier too...??
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Quite the opposite but we'd probably better not go there!

Looks like another delightful day on the mud/water today
 
Facts like the cost of an altered contraption that the manufacturers state should not be used in high winds.
Then using the above to advise people to donate to other more worthwhile charities.
 
Mister E said:
Facts like the cost of an altered contraption that the manufacturers state should not be used in high winds. (/QUOTE]

Do you not understand the notion of a concept? I didn't say that adaptations would not be necessary.

Then using the above to advise people to donate to other more worthwhile charities.
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I did not say that the RNLI was not worthwhile. What I did say that IMHO it is over endowed and the surplus could be used to more effect elsewhere.
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In post 130 you stated "IMHO there are much more worthwhile causes".

You state something will be cheaper but can not show any for of cost. Not even creative accounting
 
Mister E said:
In post 130 you stated "IMHO there are much more worthwhile causes".
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Mea culpa I did not make myself clear enough for those who do not want to understand. I,of course, meant that there was better use to be put to the cash mountain sitting in the RNLI's coffers and, with a bit of realism, they could certainly provide the same service with greater economy. I hope that is clear.

You state something will be cheaper but can not show any for of cost. Not even creative accounting
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Well when you start with 30t travel hoists at around £200k (and second hand reconditioned ones at around £50k) you have a lot of leeway before you arrive at £1.5m.

But then that's a financial management approach; not a bean-counting one.

At least it merits a study instead of carrying on blithely with the present aberration.

RNLI : please jump in any time you like to correct me.
 
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Sybarite said:
Mea culpa I did not make myself clear enough for those who do not want to understand. I,of course, meant that there was better use to be put to the cash mountain sitting in the RNLI's coffers and, with a bit of realism, they could certainly provide the same service with greater economy. I hope that is clear.



Well when you start with 30t travel hoists at around £200k (and second hand reconditioned ones at around £50k) you have a lot of leeway before you arrive at £1.5m.

But then that's a financial management approach; not a bean-counting one.

At least it merits a study instead of carrying on blithely with the present aberration.

RNLI : please jump in any time you like to correct me.
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the hoists used in most marinas I have been in are two high to fit into boathouses, planning permission for a boathouse of the required height would be very difficult to get. Workington ALB launches from a davit similar to a hoist but it comes out of BH on rails with no launching limitation as far as I know. I you took up Jonjo's offer to move to Hartlepool to run the new lean RNLI I would be quite close so we could discuss face 2 face
 
Sybarite said:
I'll let others judge who has provided more in the way of facts.
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I'm happy with that.

I've posted plenty of facts absolutely how SIMS is used at sea, that other methods of launch and recovery were explored before designing SLRS, to name just a couple.

Whereas you've only come up with the usual repeated incorrect assumptions, and a new hairbrained Heath Robinson adaptation which you have no idea would even work, and can't say how much it would cost.

You might be surprised to find we would agree on a number of concerns over the RNLI - I'm very uneasy about this years new policy of employing "beach advisors", unconnected to the lifesaving operation, who basically wander beaches scaring people with tales of disaster and then thrusting membership packs under their noses.

I'm sure your accounting skills are honed through experience and second to none, as I'd expect from someone who's obviously reached the senior positions you have. But, also try and respect the experience of those that have had similar years of actually dealing with maritime SAR at the sharp end.
 
chanelyacht said:
I'm happy with that.

I've posted plenty of facts absolutely how SIMS is used at sea, that other methods of launch and recovery were explored before designing SLRS, to name just a couple.
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If I seem aggressive it is because you have developed a knee-jerk reaction against anything I suggest. Try to think out-of-the box sometimes.

Whereas you've only come up with the usual repeated incorrect assumptions,
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Which are?

and a new hairbrained Heath Robinson adaptation which you have no idea would even work,
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You can see a video of it working. It may need adapting to dealing with rougher conditions.

and can't say how much it would cost.
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But in any case would be a fraction of the HR RNLI machine.

You might be surprised to find we would agree on a number of concerns over the RNLI - I'm very uneasy about this years new policy of employing "beach advisors", unconnected to the lifesaving operation, who basically wander beaches scaring people with tales of disaster and then thrusting membership packs under their noses.
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I agree. It doesn't seem to gel with their new opt in policy.

I'm sure your accounting skills are honed through experience and second to none, as I'd expect from someone who's obviously reached the senior positions you have. But, also try and respect the experience of those that have had similar years of actually dealing with maritime SAR at the sharp end.
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I do, but as one of my business partners used to say "Confidence does not exclude checking."
 
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So why have you not checked if any of ideas might work?
Or even the maximum recomended wind speed for a Travel Hoist.

You keep stating how much you think these things cost, but what about any adaptions.

If you want to make a proper job of this you should get proper facts and costs for what you suggest.
 
Mister E said:
So why have you not checked if any of ideas might work?
Or even the maximum recomended wind speed for a Travel Hoist.

You keep stating how much you think these things cost, but what about any adaptions.

If you want to make a proper job of this you should get proper facts and costs for what you suggest.
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It does work. I posted a video of it. As far as bad weather operations are concerned it would face the same constraints as the RNLI carriage.

I have no intention of doing a proper job of it. That would be up to RNLI members if they feel so inclined.

My first impression when I saw the RNLI carriage was 'they've got to be joking" - and that was when they were telling us that the cost was £800k.

5 years later the cost ballooned to £1.5M + 87.5% increase when inflation was virtually zero.

I simply thought that a travel hoist with tracks was a much simpler concept and when I saw that second hand ones were selling for less than £50k it made sense to explore the idea.

Using Google I found an italian firm that did a travel hoist on tracks - exactly as i had envisaged but in addition it has fold down gantries which means that the CoG is kept very low. It is also remotely controlled so you do not have the idiocy of tractor which has to get virtually submerged to put the carriage in place - and ?? putting in danger the driver in very bad weather??

What adaptations?

Adopt a "can-do" attitude.
Pole guides to enter the lift
Rollers along the sides?
Perhaps raising the engine a bit higher?
Make sure that it can exit either end of the lift.

It's not rocket science - so it may not appeal to the RNLI....
 
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As far as bad weather operations are concerned it would face the same constraints as the RNLI carriage.


THe SLARS will launch in any conditions that a Mersey does/did. Who at Poole told you of the 2metre limitation? Was it operational staff, design team or who? Can you tell me of any occasion when a Mersey class carriage launched lifeboat failed to launch? I promise to let you know when a Shannon fails to launch off a beach but it may be a long wait.

Have you seen this, Mersey carriage launch off open beach F11 on shore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brhTFkthl0M
 
dogleg said:
As far as bad weather operations are concerned it would face the same constraints as the RNLI carriage.


THe SLARS will launch in any conditions that a Mersey does/did. Who at Poole told you of the 2metre limitation? Was it operational staff, design team or who? Can you tell me of any occasion when a Mersey class carriage launched lifeboat failed to launch? I promise to let you know when a Shannon fails to launch off a beach but it may be a long wait.

Have you seen this, Mersey carriage launch off open beach F11 on shore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brhTFkthl0M
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Except at Newcastle Co. Down it's a ramp launched boat.

As far as the 2m information is concerned IIRC it was a response to a request for info in the contact box.
 
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