Has anybody here actually ever seen the yacht MALTESE FALCON? Thumbs up, or down?

[TeeRev]

Saw the Maltese Falcon about five years ago in Croatia, we were on a chartered 34 footer and had anchored in a little bay for the night to avoid the Bora that was increasing rapidly. We were relaxing with a Vat watching a thunderstorm over the mountains a long way a way when my wife said that's a strange big boat, what do you think it is, I knew her as soon as I looked at her.

The Falcon was going past close in under full sail heading downwind and must have been doing twenty knots, it just looked so impressive and under control. The following day we sailed down to Split and she was anchored off near one of Abramovich's monstrosities, we pottered around both of them and close up she looked amazing, you can't say beautiful as that would be reserved for something like Velsheda mentioned earlier in this thread, but you can say a technological masterpiece.

I think she costs about three hundred thousand pounds a week to charter, that will be when I win the lottery then.

 

[Grumpybear]

Thomas Lawson looks awful... and my reading would indicate that she didn't sail that well either....

W.r.t Falcon - while I understand the drawbacks of square rigs, the Royal Navy knew a bit about ships back in the day, and they stuck with the design for their bigger ships right into the steam engine age - clearly there's an advantage there even if I don't understand fully what it is...

Absence of

A. Soot

B. working class engineer officers from Scotland or the North of England.

either would be more than enough to make any Victorian fishhead choke on his pink gin.

In charity, before the introduction of oil firing and turbines, some of the remotest parts of the world could only realistically be patrolled under sail, which suited some of the more eccentric Victorian admirals perfectly.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Absence of

A. Soot

B. working class engineer officers from Scotland or the North of England.

either would be more than enough to make any Victorian fishhead choke on his pink gin.

In charity, before the introduction of oil firing and turbines, some of the remotest parts of the world could only realistically be patrolled under sail, which suited some of the more eccentric Victorian admirals perfectly.

Ah yes, reactionary admirals.... agreed..... but if fore and aft rigs are more efficient why didn't they put them in their bigger ships even before engines were more commonplace..

Those guys knew as much about making ships go as anyone else since, but the Royal Navy, and the tea clippers come to that, all used square rigs on their bigger ships..... I'm assuming some kind of efficiency/advantage is a given (sail area???)..... so maybe the same reason is why Falcon has them...

...either way.. n'er mind - just musing....

 

[prv]

Those guys knew as much about making ships go as anyone else since, but the Royal Navy, and the tea clippers come to that, all used square rigs on their bigger ships.....

See my post #10.

It's just not possible with 18th or even mid to late 19th century technology and practice to take, say, a Brixham trawler rig and simply scale it up ten times and end up with a practical, seaworthy vessel.

Square rig does work well downwind though.

Pete

 

[KellysEye]

Yes, it's the ugliest sailing boat I have ever had the misfortune to see. Now J class yachts...

Albeit the the winch grinding kit in the cockpit is horrible, to me they should have only the original kit. For example, when I sailed Velsheda the only winches were for the running back stays, everything else was by hand, ten people to get the main up.

 

[MBM_Greg]

Yesterday in Monaco;

 

[Keen_Ed]

Great shame they couldn't have done something else with the satcom domes.

 

[prv]

Great shame they couldn't have done something else with the satcom domes.

Mm, particularly since mounting them 30 feet closer to the satellites will make no difference whatsoever. Why couldn't the be on deck instead of up a pole?

Pete

 

[Greenheart]

Indeed. They could've lain on the foredeck like fisherman Quint's shark barrels! They couldn't be much uglier, in bright yellow.

Actually I've no idea. I expect there's a good reason why they're up the pole.

Having started by being so critical here, I'm largely won-over by MF. I just hope all that fuel burned by the generators, doesn't mostly go into the winches controlling the rig...but I doubt it.

I haven't seen this square rig aboard any other new superyachts...does that indicate flaws in MF's design, or widespread dislike for her aesthetics? Or maybe some detailed patent applied for by the builders?

 

[Twister_Ken]

The sticky-up at the front is mainly for radar. Maybe it just seemed a good idea at the time to stick the sat receivers up there too.

 

[Woodlouse]

The sticky-up at the front is mainly for radar. Maybe it just seemed a good idea at the time to stick the sat receivers up there too.

Aye, keeps the decks clear and gives the domes a good view of the sky.

I haven't seen this square rig aboard any other new superyachts...does that indicate flaws in MF's design, or widespread dislike for her aesthetics? Or maybe some detailed patent applied for by the builders?

I've seen a couple of concept drawings. Even of a two masted version. The main reason I think you'll find is more conservatism amongst the sort of people who pay the bills for these things. The rig works well, but sailing boats of that size are not in high demand and not everyone wants something so out of the ordinary.

Anyway, this is a good picture of her...

 

[Bajansailor]

Re the mast in the bow for the electronic gubbins - something is also required there for supporting the forward steaming and anchor lights, as she is over 50 m. long, hence I guess that they decided to use the mast for other things as well as the lights.

These folk are very keen on building a commercial sailing cargo ship using the same type of sails as Maltese Falcon :
http://www.b9energy.com/B9Shipping/tabid/4036/language/en-US/Default.aspx

And here is a very neat proposal by Fair Transport :
http://www.fairtransport.eu/
I think that the operators of the engineless brigantine 'Tres Hombres' are involved with the Fair Transport folk :
http://www.sailtransport.com/trading_under_sail.html

And here is an interesting article about commercial sail :
https://responsibility.credit-suiss...fm?fuseaction=OpenArticle&aoid=242852&lang=EN

 

[westernman]

Re the mast in the bow for the electronic gubbins - something is also required there for supporting the forward steaming and anchor lights, as she is over 50 m. long, hence I guess that they decided to use the mast for other things as well as the lights.

These folk are very keen on building a commercial sailing cargo ship using the same type of sails as Maltese Falcon :
http://www.b9energy.com/B9Shipping/tabid/4036/language/en-US/Default.aspx

And here is a very neat proposal by Fair Transport :
http://www.fairtransport.eu/
I think that the operators of the engineless brigantine 'Tres Hombres' are involved with the Fair Transport folk :
http://www.sailtransport.com/trading_under_sail.html

And here is an interesting article about commercial sail :
https://responsibility.credit-suiss...fm?fuseaction=OpenArticle&aoid=242852&lang=EN

I would have thought a modern schooner rig like this would be easier to build, easier to manage, more efficient up wind and pretty close dead downwind as a modern square rigger like MF.

http://www.na.northsails.com/tabid/1945/default.aspx?news_id=2367

 

[Twister_Ken]

I would have thought a modern schooner rig like this would be easier to build, easier to manage, more efficient up wind and pretty close dead downwind as a modern square rigger like MF.

http://www.na.northsails.com/tabid/1945/default.aspx?news_id=2367

Too fugly for really rich dudes, not shiny enough and nowhere as much Monaco-cred.

 

[Woodlouse]

I would have thought a modern schooner rig like this would be easier to build, easier to manage, more efficient up wind and pretty close dead downwind as a modern square rigger like MF.

http://www.na.northsails.com/tabid/1945/default.aspx?news_id=2367

What works at 60 feet does not necessarily work at 300 feet. Those schooner sails would be enormous. They'd need to be incredibly strong, and so even with todays materials, incredibly heavy. Then you need halyards to hoist and hold them, they too will have to be massively built and very carefully designed. Mirabella V's mainsail halyard consists of at least four different types of rope depending on the loads and stresses that are anticipated on the halyard at various points and even then they failed.

The reason why square rigged survived right up until the end of the age of sail as the foremost rig is because it was the easiest, the safest and the simplest when made to the sort of scale that economics required. Even with 100 years advance in technology the principals remain the same. The ease at which Maltise Falcon is sailed is demonstrated by the fact that of all the really big sailing boats, the Falcon is the one you are most likely to see with her sails set.

 

[snowleopard]

Downside of free standing rigs is that you can't fly a jib off them

Hm.

 

[snowleopard]

I would have thought a modern schooner rig like this would be easier to build, easier to manage, more efficient up wind and pretty close dead downwind as a modern square rigger like MF.

That rig looks like a square rig but aerodynamically it is more like an aircraft wing. No gaps between sails for the wind to leak through. I'd be surprised if it wasn't almost as close winded as a modern bermuda rig. It's only major disadvantage from an efficiency perspective is that the sail chord is a symmetrical arc of a circle so you can't get a perfect shape with maximum draft at <50% of the chord.

As for easier to manage, there is no reefing, just furl any sails you don't need and the rest still has the best shape. If the whole thing can be handled by one man pressing a few buttons you can't get much easier.

 

[snowleopard]

The main reason I think you'll find is more conservatism amongst the sort of people who pay the bills for these things. The rig works well, but sailing boats of that size are not in high demand and not everyone wants something so out of the ordinary.

A lot of people find her ugly because she is an unfamiliar concept. It's a bit like Bigears and his love of anything that looks old.

Unconventional rigs will always be in a minority because...

• If it were any good there would be more of them about.
• It looks unfamiliar so it's ugly.
• A mast can't possibly stand up without stays, think of the stresses on the hull
• It won't hold its value because no one will want to buy it.

Believe me, I've heard them all.

 

[westernman]

What works at 60 feet does not necessarily work at 300 feet. Those schooner sails would be enormous. They'd need to be incredibly strong, and so even with todays materials, incredibly heavy. Then you need halyards to hoist and hold them, they too will have to be massively built and very carefully designed. Mirabella V's mainsail halyard consists of at least four different types of rope depending on the loads and stresses that are anticipated on the halyard at various points and even then they failed.

The reason why square rigged survived right up until the end of the age of sail as the foremost rig is because it was the easiest, the safest and the simplest when made to the sort of scale that economics required. Even with 100 years advance in technology the principals remain the same. The ease at which Maltise Falcon is sailed is demonstrated by the fact that of all the really big sailing boats, the Falcon is the one you are most likely to see with her sails set.

The main reason I think for the survival of the square right was the lack of power for winches and the like - so sails had to be split in to bits which could be managed by a human crew with no mechanical assistance. That is no problem today.

I can't believe it is not possible to create a wire or rope halyard which is strong enough for a single bermudan sail with a luff the length of a mast of the MF. After all huge suspension bridges which are quite heavy are held up by bits of wire.