Has AIS throttled radar fits ?

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Chris Edwards

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Now before I start, I know that AIS isnt a replacement for radar and like any aid, you shouldnt put all your trust in one medium etc.

Now that said:

Coming back to the sailing scene after a few years of absence (working and saving), Ive noticed a change in that many budget conscious sailors are now fitting AIS and foregoing radar.

I know that ideally you should have both and many do, but Ive seen a few comments on here to the effect, “Ive got an AIS so didnt bother with radar”.

Im sure the manufacturers must be seeing a reduction in radar numbers ?

Ive just dumbed down my radar requirement and retrofitted my 1723 Furuno with a simpler more flexible unit. Im regretting that a bit because I dont have an EBL stays on screen for more than a few seconds and I do wish you could have a parallel index line that could be parallelled to COG for running past headlands etc and cross checking position (another story for another post).

Thoughts ?
 
Had radar on my previous boat and made little use of it. AIS isn't perfect (some large vessels fail to transmit) but I don't feel I have a need for radar. Knowing the CPA and time to CPA is something radar cannot offer.
And today's chart plotters and GPS reliability mean that radar does not offer much for navigation in fog either.
 
Exactly my point I think.

Ive noticed that you have to be wary of fishing boats and warships as they turn their AIS off from time to time.
I use my radar in bad visibility as an alternative safeguard to what the AIS tells me and I use it for landfalls and running along coastlines (to cross check GPS), but I take your point. This is one of the reasons I downgraded - it took up too much space and was pretty pointless at the chart table where I couldnt see it from the watch position.
 
eastlands said:
Although with today's MFDs you'd have your radar overlaid on your chart at the helm...
Click to expand...

Long story. Old Raymarine plotter - dont like small boat radar overlay on a small screen - too messy due to the blobs caused by large horizontal beamwidths. There is a continuing drive towards integration but integration isnt always good especially as makers tend to lock you in with inbuilt obsolescence.
 
On the other hand small yacht radar these days is so much better than it was say 10 years ago. The latest models are lighter, cheaper, higher resolution, less power hungry and integrate well with modern electronics (MFDs)

All of those would make it a much more practical proposition for most small boat sailors than it was 10 years ago - so I would imagine radar sales are actually holding up or even increasing.
 
I have neither. Only once in my sailing career have I been caught out by an unexpected fog bank. A friendly watch officer on the "City of New York" helped me out by radio, assuring me that I was free of traffic. I was also helped by a passing Condor Ferry. Both had me on Radar (thank you "Cyclops").
 
However I think both have uses beyond fog (although it was a channel crossing with fog descending as we entered the shipping lanes that convinced me to buy a radar for my previous boat in pre-AIS days).
I sailed from the Baltic to UK this year and was glad of the AIS when dealing with the traffic heading into the Elbe at night.
And crossing Europort entrance would have been quite scary without AIS even though I was in radio contact with VTS throughout.
 
The reason I got AIS was to allow other vessels to see me.

The watchkeepers on most ships these days are young men brought up in the computer age who firmly believe what they see on the screen in front of them (Play Station mentality). They are more likely to see you on AIS than by looking out of the window. They will pick you up on AIS long before radar especially in a force 5 and at a speed of maybe 24 Knots, which the larger container ships motor at.
 
It all depends on where and when you are sailing. We use both as they have different advantages. Fishing boats and many recreational sailing and motor yachts do not have AIS so in fog and at night - radar is a must. Around commercial shipping e.g. recently crossing shipping lanes on passage from Rabat to Cadiz - AIS. Incidentally both were hopeless when crossing Singapore Straits as just too much traffic and eyeball navigation essential.
 
We cruised abroad for over twenty years without either, and much without a radio. I wouldn't want to do this now but it was once common. I can well understand those whose budget dictates that they only get AIS receive, and there is no reason why they should not enjoy happy sailing. There will, though, be the odd occasions when fog or the possibility of fog makes even GPS and AIS insufficient for real security and staying in harbour or running for shelter the only sensible options, especially when the presence of fishing boats and yachts means that AIS won't suffice.
 
I would not be without my radar.
I only use it about twice a year but that is when you really need it, usually due to fog. The trouble with AIS is you are relying on someone else to either transmit or to see you and possibly take avoiding action. I believe this to be fatally flawed. You must look after yourself.
 
Chris Edwards said:
I know that ideally you should have both and many do, but I've seen a few comments on here to the effect, “I've got an AIS so didn't bother with radar”.
Click to expand...

An interesting thought pattern. I didn't realise that headlands and ALL navigation buoys are now fitted with AIS transponders!
 
Some of us "don't bother with radar" because our little engines cannot generate enough wiggly amps to drive one. Perhaps this is why some people fit huge engines to their wee sailing boats........
 
Giblets said:
An interesting thought pattern. I didn't realise that headlands and ALL navigation buoys are now fitted with AIS transponders!
Click to expand...

I know it's a joke, but think seriously for a minute - there'd be literally no point in doing this. All AIS does is say "I'm at latitude Y and longitude X", and that information is already printed on the chart. An AIS signal about a charted object is adding nothing at all.

Pete
 
LadyInBed said:
Do you have hard evidence of this?
In UK waters I would like to think that a ship on passage with AIS Tx off would be taken to task if observed.
Click to expand...

I've heard Southampton VTS tell a ship that they weren't transmitting AIS once, maybe twice. I've encountered one ship in the Channel which didn't show on my AIS at a range where I would have expected a solid target - maybe they weren't transmitting, or maybe there was some signal problem.

That's been it in eight years of having an AIS receiver in the Solent and central Channel.

Pete
 
Basically, virtual AtoN are markers or signposts to highlight hazards, channel markers, areas to avoid etc.
They are a progressive part of the paperless bridge, a drive to reduce cost for shipowners and authorities maintaining lights and buoyage.

Not sure about the benefit of highlighting headlands, other than sharp rock, dont bump into this ?
Dumbing down for navigators ?

prv said:
I know it's a joke, but think seriously for a minute - there'd be literally no point in doing this. All AIS does is say "I'm at latitude Y and longitude X", and that information is already printed on the chart. An AIS signal about a charted object is adding nothing at all.

Pete
Click to expand...
 
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