Harwich to London

benw

benw

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OK just a few days before our trip to London from the Orwell. As it is our first trip up the London River I am trying to establish a clear view of options and areas of ambiguity. Any thoughts on the following:
Grain Spit and crossing from Queenboro - OK or not as some threads on the forum seem to suggest pipe laying inhibits this short cut?
Sailing up the Thames - seems that convention is to motor through Barage but wind dependent would like to sail. Concerns being making enough way to meet lock in at St Kat's, plus how do the commercial vessels regard sailing vessels actually doing what they do best -Sail?
Crossing the shipping lane via advised points ie SeaReach no5 and areas where not to stray?
Is there a holding area or tie up point if we arrive early at St Kats? The pilot seems to offer several options but your thoughts appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Ben
 
Presumably you'll be coming out of QB close to LW, so you're not going to want to cut the corner too much anyway - and there are big piles of mud lying around on the Spit. Strictly you'll need to go round east of the Montgomery. But when I was over there a few weeks back, we had no problem cutting inside at Grain Edge. They didn't seem to mind - the guard boat was around, but they weren't digging at the time, and we even had a chat with the guys on one of the tugs. I'm not sure if they've tightened up in recent weeks as they've moved further out onto the Spit - you'll just have to see where they're up to. No big deal to dodge round Monty though.

I haven't got the chart in front of me but, given you're coming out of QB, I'd stay south of the channel until you are past Canvey. Cross over somewhere up the Muckings. I think that's what's recommended - I just follow the East Coast Pilot and find it spot on.

Ian.
 
Thanks Ian,
Yes will be departing as close to LW Sheerness may be just before so you are right, don't want to cut too much off anyway.
On the return leg back to Harwich I have been wondering about plugging the tide and going all the way. Not sure about the merits of this or waiting 6hrs for the next HW and using the ebb back to Harwich. THis gives me about 3hrs of light by which time I would hope to be across the Wallet Spitway. I am happy to do the rest in the dark but would really want to hit the spitway with some light especially on a falling tide.
Ben
 
Grain Spit and crossing from Queenboro - OK or not as some threads on the forum seem to suggest pipe laying inhibits this short cut?
- still in force AFAIK. Ring Thames CG or Medway Ports to confirm.

Sailing up the Thames - seems that convention is to motor through Barage but wind dependent would like to sail.
- it is not 'convention'. If you have an engine, they do not like you sailing through, at all. The PLA's General Directions say "Vessels Under Sail: Vessels proceeding under sail between the Woolwich Ferry Terminal and Hookness shall keep to the starboard side of the Fairway. Vessels fitted with a working engine should use motor power to navigate through the Thames Barrier."

Concerns being making enough way to meet lock in at St Kat's, plus how do the commercial vessels regard sailing vessels actually doing what they do best -Sail?
- they generally like you to obey the Colregs! You will also be expected to stick to the stbd side of the river. I think that when you get to Greenwich and beyond you would find it quite stressful sailing, unless you have a tail-wind.

Crossing the shipping lane via advised points ie SeaReach no5 and areas where not to stray?
- standard instructions are shown on charts, plus use south side of river passing the Shellhaven area.

Is there a holding area or tie up point if we arrive early at St Kats? The pilot seems to offer several options but your thoughts appreciated.
- there are six very-low-down mooring buoys just downstream of the entrance. If you have high freeboard you may find these are difficult to pick up. There are also 2 (or one last May, the other was missing) large pinkish round buoys, easier to pick up but vicious on your topsides. Alternatively you may be able to tie up on the inside of St. Kats Pier but it's never looked very appealing to me. Otherwise, just hang about nearby under power, stemming the tide and staying out of the way of the (usually heavy!) traffic.
 
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We did this trip this year - our first up the Thames :D - Agree with above re the cable laying, at worst you have to go round the Richard My.

I think the authorities require you to motor through the barrier, unless you have no engine. You would certainly need to clear it with London VTS else you might find a black RIB alongside?

I know friends who have sailed in other parts of the river, but I believe commercial traffic takes no prisoners.

Regarding waiting outside St Kat's if you are early, there are several large yellow buoys just East of the lock entrance which you can pick up. They are not easy to get hold of mainly because of the constant short steep waves in that area caused by the continuous wash from passing river traffic. We did manage however after 3 tries and one broken boathook :( The other problem is that the buoys are quite close together, so although there are 2 lines of 3 buoys unless the yachts are fairly modest in size they may find themselves in contact. We spent much of our time there fighting off the next buoy in the trot. Fortunately there was only one other yacht waiting and that was on the other trot.

Once inside St Kat's is great. :D Enjoy the trip.
 
As it happens, I have just finished redrawing my Spitway chartlet which you might find of use. Remember if you monitor Ch 69, London VTS, they broadcast tidal heights at four locations at 15 minutes to and 15 past the hour. The four always start with the height of tide at Walton. Add that height of tide to the charted depths and you have a reasonable approximation of what you can expect. Reception does get a bit flakey at times at the Spitway but the transmission is always preceeding by warning pips/bleeps.

For anybody downloading the Spitway pdf from my website; I haven't upgraded that one yet - next job to do! - Cancel that - Done it now! Version on website contains a bit of text with the chartlet.
 
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Further to my post here is a photo of the entrance from Tower Bridge, you can see the waiting buoys the 2 larger upriver ones are best if free.

StKatsentrance.jpg
 
our ususal m.o. is to sail if poss as far as woolwich - then motor through as required and stay on the donk until st kats. There's a lot to be done in a confined space - fenders lines, vhf, unfamiliar lock, more traffic in a smaller space than most of us encounter regularly. It can also be surprisingly choppy. I wouldn't fancy trying to hold a boat head to wind to drop sails if it could be avoided.
 
benw said:
Thanks Ian,
I have been wondering about plugging the tide and going all the way.
Click to expand...

Hmm. You've only got 5 hours of ebb on the run from London to Southend. Last time I did it, I left Limehouse at HW and was back at Southend Pier dead on low water. I was on the motor the whole way, but the chances are you'll have a favourable wind direction for sailing.

If you do decide to plug the tide, I'd suggest crossing the channel somewhere beyond Canvey, so that you're over on the Southend side by the time the tide turns. Try and keep to the shallower water where it runs a bit slower. Avoids negotiating Grain Spit and the Sea Reach/Medway 1 area. Run past the pier, Shoebury boom, man-made island etc.

If you decide to sit out the tide, you could consider pulling into the Ray Gut off Southend, rather heading into the Medway. It's fairly protected in there for the LW+/-3 or so.
 
Thanks everyone for the sound advice. I've got a feeling the lock area is going to be mighty busy as we are going up Saturday. Although a berth has been confirmed for us the Haven website is showing FULL.
Re the return trip, I think taking the morning ebb the following day will be a better plan as it will give lots of time to recount the trip so far and in daylight which is a bonus. The last time we headed up the Wallet in the dark we almost snagged a pot! luckily the wind had dropped so much we were barely making any way.
I am sure it will be an eye opener and enjoyable being right in the heart of the capital!
Our modest Sadler 32 will be dwarfed I am sure but that's the fun of it all!
Any one else heading that way ?
Ben
 
Cantata said:
Pic taken on the ebb by the look of it, and near LW. The buoys would generally be used only on the flood.
Click to expand...

True, they are further from the pier at the time you would be interested, however this does not change the spacing which is pretty tight between the buoys. The inner trot is, as you can see in the photo, more widely spaced.
 
Leigh I believe we passed each other down the Orwell on your route to the Thames this June, we departed RHYC at a similar time. We were heading for Tollesbury as the girls were booked in at the lightship for a sailing course. We have a dark blue hull Sadler 32 usually three daughters and a mad lab in tow.
Ben
 
lock out

have a good trip ! We were there a few weeks ago and full really meant full! As a group we were rafted up ....it was rammed! But a great location. My hint -book your lock out! essential as it gets full and my suggestion is go for early rather than late -it takes a while and if you get out on top of tide you will get to pretty well out of the thames on the tide.

And by the way Queenborough was very full at weekend, ok in week. Lots of our dutch freinds around this year
 
cookjwm said:
have a good trip ! We were there a few weeks ago and full really meant full! As a group we were rafted up ....it was rammed! But a great location. My hint -book your lock out! essential as it gets full and my suggestion is go for early rather than late -it takes a while and if you get out on top of tide you will get to pretty well out of the thames on the tide.

And by the way Queenborough was very full at weekend, ok in week. Lots of our dutch freinds around this year
Click to expand...

suggest Sharfleet Creek & Limehouse much more civilized ;)
 
cookjwm said:
. My hint -book your lock out! essential as it gets full and my suggestion is go for early rather than late -it takes a while and if you get out on top of tide you will get to pretty well out of the thames on the tide.
Click to expand...

When I last went up to St Kats they could accomodate us without a problem but all all the 'lock outs' had been booked for our preferred date of departure meaning we had to leave a day early. So its probably best to check before setting off on bank holiday weekends!
 
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