Harken 50.2 Radial winch problem - drum rubbing base skirt

[West Coast]

Hi, I have a couple of Harken 50.2 ST Radial primary winches. Boat built 2012, I purchased the boat in 2018.

Since buying the boat, I noticed on both winches that the lower outer edge of the drum was lightly rubbing the plastic skirt which surround the base. This causes additional friction, certainly the drums don’t run as freely as they should. On other harken winches on board I have noted a small gap here, say 1 - 2 mm. I completely dismantled and serviced both winches last week. No problems in the servicing, all components seemed fine. But when reassembled, the drums still rub on the lower skirt.

The drum rests vertically on 2 roller bearing races, with a plastic collar in between. There is no bottom plastic washer under the lower bearing race which other Harken winches have, but checking the 50 diagram, no washer is used. Harken UK have since confirmed there should not be a lower plastic washer. The drum rubs the base even when the drum is not fully tightened down using the locking screw into the drive shaft. I checked the bearing races and the plastic collar for distortion/damage but none was evident.

Has anyone else come across this problem? I have been asking the Harken UK team but they are stumped.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Buy a new set of roller bearings and see if the gap appears, it wouldn't take a lot of wear for it to close up, unlikely but possible. Rather than buying Harken spares go to a bearing specialist supplier, if you can't find the bearing reference just take the bearing, it will be about 10% of the price you would pay for a Harken spare.

 

[West Coast]

Thanks, but unfortunately the roller bearing races are plastic and specific to harken, price is £80 per winch.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Thanks, but unfortunately the roller bearing races are plastic and specific to harken, price is £100 per winch.

I think that is where your problem may lie. It has to be worth seeing if you can source a replacement though it doesn't have to have a plastic cage.

 

[pvb]

The drum rests vertically on 2 roller bearing races, with a plastic collar in between. There is no bottom plastic washer under the lower bearing race which other Harken winches have, but checking the 50 diagram, no washer is used. Harken UK have since confirmed there should not be a lower plastic washer. The drum rubs the base even when the drum is not fully tightened down using the locking screw into the drive shaft. I checked the bearing races and the plastic collar for distortion/damage but none was evident.

So if you add a plastic washer, say 2mm thick, it should lift the drum and remove the problem. Despite what Harken say, if it fixes the problem what's the downside?

 

[West Coast]

So if you add a plastic washer, say 2mm thick, it should lift the drum and remove the problem. Despite what Harken say, if it fixes the problem what's the downside?

Harken have a concern that this might compromise engagement of the drive gear to the drum teeth. Can’t see myself that this would be a big issue, we are not talking precision gears.

 

[Catalina36]

How much would an engineering shop charge to take 2mm off each skirt? Sometimes it's easier to treat the symptom than struggle to find the cause.

 

[West Coast]

How much would an engineering shop charge to take 2mm off each skirt? Sometimes it's easier to treat the symptom than struggle to find the cause.

That is also a possibility, would have to take the whole winch off to do this, so been wondering how I could do this in situ with some simple jig or similar. But would rather find the reason!

 

[kenckar]

Hey West Coast, did you ever reslve this. I am having the same problem. The winch is quite stiff and it is really annoying. HArken suggested maybe putting a near of grease, but that didn't help.

 

[kenckar]

Just to add a little more character to this discussion. When I put the barrel on at first, before putting the top assembly on, it spun nicely, the pawls were clicking, and it seemed good. But then when I put the top assembly on, it wouldn't turn at all. The top assembly was binding or rubbing on the top plate.

The reason was that I did not have the drum down that last 2 mm. When I pushed it down inside the skirt, it no longer turned freely because of the rubbing or friction on the skirt, but it did turn and winch properly with the top assembly in place.

The reason I mention this is that I suspect that putting a spacer in to keep the drum above the skirt might cause that same binding. Given how much the the skirt friction affects the operation, the tolerances seem unrealistically small.

I like the idea of cutting down some of the skirt, rather than removing the whole blinking winch to replace the skirt, which is flawed anyway. Pretty sure a replacement skirt isn't free either.

 

[penfold]

Most winches have a plastic washer(item 9 here) that takes axial loads, usually 1-1.5mm thick; if there isn't one I'd be experimenting to see if one can be added given plastic shim is cheap and winches are apparently made of diamond-encrusted platinum.

 

[kenckar]

Most winches have a plastic washer(item 9 here) that takes axial loads, usually 1-1.5mm thick; if there isn't one I'd be experimenting to see if one can be added given plastic shim is cheap and winches are apparently made of diamond-encrusted platinum.

Thanks Penfold. I wonder if I can sell some of the diamonds. and uy a new bearing.Lol.

Seriously though, mine is a harken Radial 46.2 I'm going to have to take it apart and check what is providing the axial (vertical) support for the drum. I would be surprised if the plastic washer is the actual support. It would seem so odd to go cheap on the vertical support of the drum.

As I recall the vertical support is higher. In the maintenance manual it looks like the part referred to as the middle step of the assembly housing (which requires grease. For this winch there is no bottom plastic bearing. Perhaps I could put a metal washer bearing at that middle step.

I'm hoping that the OP chimes in with his solution if any...

 

[penfold]

It's also worth asking Harken; their tech support is pretty decent, for current models anyway.

 

[kenckar]

Thanks penfold. I had a nice conversation with them a while back. They suggested to remove the winch and replace the skirt with a new one. They also said to try putting some grease around the drum where it is in contact with the skirt. They seem to think that the friction is because the plastic skirt has warped. Grease didn't help.

The skirt is only about $25, but it seems like a lot of work, and I am not convinced it will fix the problem. Plus, all four of my winches are doing this (but one is much worse). Sigh.

 

[West Coast]

Away on the boat just now, so only just seen your post. I eventually tracked down why the problem had occurred. It seems the plastic collar has to sit exactly level to the spindle base - in my case, the boat builder had put a load of sealant under the plastic collar, lifting it enough to foul the underside of the drum. I removed the base and cleaned all the excess sealant, then refitted. This worked to a good extent, but not completely as I think the original excess sealant put some permanent distortion into the plastic collar. I also removed a few mm of the collar height which also helped, I have a replacement collar to fit at some point. The harken uk engineer seemed genuinely puzzled with all this, not having seen it before.

 

[kenckar]

Away on the boat just now, so only just seen your post. I eventually tracked down why the problem had occurred. It seems the plastic collar has to sit exactly level to the spindle base - in my case, the boat builder had put a load of sealant under the plastic collar, lifting it enough to foul the underside of the drum. I removed the base and cleaned all the excess sealant, then refitted. This worked to a good extent, but not completely as I think the original excess sealant put some permanent distortion into the plastic collar. I also removed a few mm of the collar height which also helped, I have a replacement collar to fit at some point. The harken uk engineer seemed genuinely puzzled with all this, not having seen it before.

Thanks West Coast. How did you remove the collar height. I'm almost thinking that removing the winch barrel and taking a file to the skirt might work...

 

[West Coast]

Thanks West Coast. How did you remove the collar height. I'm almost thinking that removing the winch barrel and taking a file to the skirt might work...

I scribed a line to the outside of the collar, then used coarse sandpaper on a wood block to remove the few mm ,then some finer sandpaper to finish. I did this while the plastic collar was still in situ, taking care to cover the gearing from the plastic debris