Hard Top - Med - Why?

lambohill

lambohill

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Having been on the hunt for replacement open / sportsboat for a while, I feel that the pre-'hard top concept' sports / open boats do it WAY better with canvas.

Sometime in the 2000's somebody (in northern europe?) must have decided, I'm bored, we need a new USP, lets get rid of this very versatile canvas top on a frame and call it a hard top.
Had they ever been on a boat in the med?
And, why do they call it a hard top? Surely a hard side, would be more correct.
In fact, if it was a 'hard top' then they might be onto something.

Surely they got the brief back to front?
Canvas top gives a cover from the sun, open sides for a breeze, and a nice low profile look. Does the more recent design of solid glass and grip sides with a canvas roof not give the worst of both worlds in the sun?
Opinions welcome!
 
lambohill said:
Having been on the hunt for replacement open / sportsboat for a while, I feel that the pre-'hard top concept' sports / open boats do it WAY better with canvas.
!
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It will be just "me and thee" afraid ----
Seriously depends on how use your boat I guess .Main Season in the med we find it all open air living ,with the right combo of shade /breeze .

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provides shade when you need it .

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It's actually on this boat some sort of plastic smooth on the inside and white .Easy to clean and a doodle to fold up /away etc .

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When the sun lowers in the PM the shade moves .Means you can get some shut eye and "rest " those delicate skin cells in .your face .

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Shade with a 30 knot Breeze (cruise)

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Breeze is nice -with shade too -this one,s man made .
Ps don,t tell the Eco /Greens -when it stinking hot ,we just go for Pootle 8-9 knots here ---just to keep cool

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Shade round the table -- roasting on the sun pad
 
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I thought I wanted a hard top with a sliding roof so I tried one with the fullest intent to buy. What I found was an eye full of GRP where I wanted a real good view plus something massive to bang my head against. Then I got no breeze through my hair at all but the sun was burning a hole in my head. Enough! A canvas top with open sides gives me all the view and all the ventilation I crave, overhead sun & rain protection and no electic operations to go phut! But after about 2004 it's a struggle to get such an "open" boat with plenty of accommodation. Just love the Targa 52 open, for the Med at least!
 
A grumpy sceptic view.

Tent boats. Against.......
Zips zips and more zips.Complicated and diabolical fiddly clips.
Moving half the seating soft furnishing to get to the storage lockers to hide the canvas covers,dismantling stainless tubing then dragging it all out again on your return and refitting.
Doing this every single time you go out,even to the Cala 10 mins away.
Regular replacement costs due to fading/stains/knackered zips and general scruffyness.

For....not much.
When stationary the sun pentrates canvas like it is not there.

Any invite I get to join somebody who owns a tent boat usually comes with a caveat that forbids contact with tasks involving zips/clips/bits of stainless pipe, those widdly little bungee thingymebobs or anything secured to glassfibre with self tapping screws. :)
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

oldgit said:
Tent boats. Against.......
Zips zips and more zips.Complicated and diabolical fiddly clips.
Moving half the seating soft furnishing to get to the storage lockers to hide the canvas covers,dismantling stainless tubing then dragging it all out again on your return and refitting.
Doing this every single time you go out,even to the Cala 10 mins away.
Regular replacement costs due to fading/stains/knackered zips and general scruffyness.

For....not much.
When stationary the sun pentrates canvas like it is not there.

Any invite I get to join somebody who owns a tent boat usually comes with a caveat that forbids contact with tasks involving zips/clips/bits of stainless pipe, those widdly little bungee thingymebobs or anything secured to glassfibre with self tapping screws. :)
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Spoken from the heart ... By someone who has apparently never been on an open sports boat in the med.

I agree with the OP - for med use (where, oldgit, we take the side covers out in May and don't put them back until October) an open boat with bimini is the best solution. We're also looking for a replacement boat around 50' and like the OP I think the Targa 52 is hard to beat. Shame there aren't any of the late ones without a hard top.

PS oldgit, your comment about the sun penetrating the canvas like it isn't there just isn't correct. We don't move any seating to put the canvas away on the one day of the year we're removing it, it goes in the garage, and the only time I ever do anything with the frame is when I want to take the bimini down. Even then all I have to do is undo one strap and four pins and the whole thing just folds against the arch.

But hey-ho, never let the facts get in the way of a good old-fashioned rant, eh?
 
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Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

Surely a hard top with opening "sunroof" gives you the best of both worlds? Sun when you want it and sturdy shade when you don't. Fixed so solid and virtually no maintenance. They do cost more though ...
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

I don't find so - where the hard top has fixed side glass at least.
Roof open, no sun shade. Roof closed, hot as hell and no breeze.

More like the worst of both worlds.

As for tent boats, my fly bridge Bimini is big enough that's its as much/as littlehassle as jimmy's sports boat Bimini. As with his, it goes up in May and cones down inseptember
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

Magnum said:
Surely a hard top with opening "sunroof" gives you the best of both worlds? Sun when you want it and sturdy shade when you don't. Fixed so solid and virtually no maintenance. They do cost more though ...
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Not in the med. Maybe in northern europe, when you want the sun on your head to warm you.
When the sun is out, which is basically all the time, I want solid top cover and no sides, exactly the opposite of the hard sides with sliding soft top design which is now the adopted standard.
For getting some sun, adjust the bimini top to reduce or remove, in all cases a nice breeze with the full soft top design.
I feel that the hard top design was either for colder climes or OTT response to the 'oldgit' style of thinking
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

oldgit said:
Tent boats. Against.......
Zips zips and more zips.Complicated and diabolical fiddly clips.
Moving half the seating soft furnishing to get to the storage lockers to hide the canvas covers,dismantling stainless tubing then dragging it all out again on your return and refitting.
Doing this every single time you go out,even to the Cala 10 mins away.
Regular replacement costs due to fading/stains/knackered zips and general scruffyness.

For....not much.
When stationary the sun pentrates canvas like it is not there.
Any invite I get to join somebody who owns a tent boat usually comes with a caveat that forbids contact with tasks involving zips/clips/bits of stainless pipe, those widdly little bungee thingymebobs or anything secured to glassfibre with self tapping screws. :)
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Nooooooooo
Guardiene and or crew prep the boat ,inc turn Aircon , fridges ( stocked with Rose ) on .
Aside in post # 2 -pics 2and4 just undo two strap,s at each end and ( sun blocking ) Binimi simply rotates /folds fwds and rest under the screen .Straps attached to proper backed cleats .no self tappers in sight .No metal poles either to handle .

How ever fast forward to 2016 it's all like most things electric --push a button -folds away into its own descrete looker
Even new " Ferretti " Itama .

I guess you could go back to hollowing a log with an adze :) -to prove any boating point !

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Here's my lad we share him , prepping some Rivas -electric folding roof (s)
 
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Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

I was talking about a hard top on a flybridge boat which has open sides and an opening "sun roof".
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

jimmy_the_builder said:
Spoken from the heart ... By someone who has apparently never been on an open sports boat in the med.

I agree with the OP - for med use (where, oldgit, we take the side covers out in May and don't put them back until October) an open boat with bimini is the best solution. We're also looking for a replacement boat around 50' and like the OP I think the Targa 52 is hard to beat. Shame there aren't any of the late ones without a hard top.

PS oldgit, your comment about the sun penetrating the canvas like it isn't there just isn't correct. We don't move any seating to put the canvas away on the one day of the year we're removing it, it goes in the garage, and the only time I ever do anything with the frame is when I want to take the bimini down. Even then all I have to do is undo one strap and four pins and the whole thing just folds against the arch.

But hey-ho, never let the facts get in the way of a good old-fashioned rant, eh?
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...and where do you think the Rochester Cruising Club does its cruising if not on the med?

Oh, you mean the southern med, mebbe? :D
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

jimmy_the_builder said:
Spoken from the heart ..By someone who has apparently never been on an open sports boat in the med.

But hey-ho, never let the facts get in the way of a good old-fashioned rant, eh?
Click to expand...

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Bugger and there was me thinking that Nice was in France and Majorca was in Spain and both were in the Med.
Mind you was while ago perhaps it has moved.
CAB1.jpg


........and the palaver was the same on both a Targa 37 and T43 hiding all the canvas in the lockers under the seats.
Lets not mention trying to get the rib out of the garage either.

a nice flybridge please with air in every cabin. :)
DSCN6679.jpg

Much more practical..
 
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Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

oldgit said:
a nice flybridge please with air in every cabin. :)
DSCN6679.jpg

Much more practical..
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:D:D Well, I'm still going to respectfully disagree with everything you said - if your chum with a med boat is putting the covers back in after every single summer trip out on his boat, then he's doing it wrong.

Either way - I'm frankly astonished that you're prepared to even contemplate stepping aboard a Targa 37 - with outdrives!! :D
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

jimmy_the_builder said:
:D:D Well, I'm still going to respectfully disagree with everything you said - if your chum with a med boat is putting the covers back in after every single summer trip out on his boat, then he's doing it wrong.
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To be fair Jimmy I agree with oldgit. The all too regular fight with the canvas top whenever I left the boat to go home was one of the major reasons I sold my Targa 48 in SoF a few years ago. Also putting it up at sea when the weather cut up rough and spray was coming over the bow was a major PITA

Actually IMHO the best of both worlds is a flybridge boat but I'm not going to go there;)
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

Deleted User said:
To be fair Jimmy I agree with oldgit. The all too regular fight with the canvas top whenever I left the boat to go home was one of the major reasons I sold my Targa 48 in SoF a few years ago. Also putting it up at sea when the weather cut up rough and spray was coming over the bow was a major PITA

Actually IMHO the best of both worlds is a flybridge boat but I'm not going to go there;)
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Ok - but the point is that the 'regular fight with the canvas top whenever I left the boat to go home' just doesn't need to happen: take the sides out once a year, and leave them out for the summer. No regular fighting involved. (And need I mention canvas issues with a certain Ferretti in Port Vauban only yesterday....? :D:)
 
Re: A grumpy sceptic view.

jimmy_the_builder said:
Ok - but the point is that the 'regular fight with the canvas top whenever I left the boat to go home' just doesn't need to happen: take the sides out once a year, and leave them out for the summer. No regular fighting involved. (And need I mention canvas issues with a certain Ferretti in Port Vauban only yesterday....? :D:)
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm being too anal but I like to leave all the exterior seating protected when I leave the boat which either means putting all the individual seat covers on or putting up the canvas enclosures and yes that does mean occasionally a seat cover blows off. Anyway I blame you SoF guys for that. You guys told me the Riviera has its own special micro climate which means its never windy and I believed you;)
 
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