PabloPicasso
Well-Known Member
Hanse 301 from 2001/2? Wing keel.
Is that an "avoid" yacht?
Is that an "avoid" yacht?
Hanse - where do they sit on the quality scale?
- Thread starter BlueSkyNick
- Start date
Tranona
Well-Known Member
No. Nothing like the Hanses discussed in this thread. It is a Swedish design from Aphrodite that Schmidt bought when he set up the factory in E Germany to build "cheap" boats. This C:/Users/Stewart/Downloads/301SailingToday_USA.pdf tells the story. Perhaps a bit rough round the edges compared with similar boats at the time but sound design and build. Note that like your current boat a bit underpowered with the standard engine.
That link won't work so go to the second entry on this google search google.com/search?q=Hanse+301&rlz=1C1VDKB_en-GBGB1067GB1067&oq=Hanse+301&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIICAQQABgWGB4yCAgFEAAYFhgeMggIBhAAGBYYHjIICAcQABgWGB4yCAgIEAAYFhgeMggICRAAGBYYHtIBCDk1NDBqMGo0qAIAsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
That link won't work so go to the second entry on this google search google.com/search?q=Hanse+301&rlz=1C1VDKB_en-GBGB1067GB1067&oq=Hanse+301&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIICAQQABgWGB4yCAgFEAAYFhgeMggIBhAAGBYYHjIICAcQABgWGB4yCAgIEAAYFhgeMggICRAAGBYYHtIBCDk1NDBqMGo0qAIAsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
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TSB240
Well-Known Member
It was the boat that started Hanse.
East German quality build based on transforming a furniture making business and using moulds from a dissolved Swedish boat builder.
If you are 6' 6" then it will be too cramped in any bunk other than the aft double which needs some athleticism to access by any person. I loved it but no chance of any nooky given the space between bunk cushion and underside of cockpit!
I had ours for 8 years cruising Irish Sea extensively. Mine was well looked after by both myself and the previous owner.
Never scared me, but it is a light boat and a serious performer off wind. Our best recorded trip was from Padstow to IOS with an average speed of 8knots.
On wind you may "run out of keel" but reefing early isnt necessary with a highly usable fractional rig and a fully battened main and roller 110% genoa.
Recent problems have been reported by some of badly built rudders. These were subcontracted by Hanse and are a weakness. A replacement is available from Jeffa. (Not the original subbies).
We missed having an on board shower when away from marinas for long periods.
Volvo 10hp is fine if you keep the hull clean. Bigger engine uses more fuel as you will only be pushing a bigger bow wave.
Useful link to owners forum.
300 / 301 - myHanse - Hanse Yachts Owners Forum - Page 1
Laysula
Well-Known Member
As TSB said. We were the previous owners. Loved the boat.
Martin&Rene
Well-Known Member
We have had our 2003 Hanse 341 for 14 years now and we sail it typically 10-12 weeks a year in Scotland. Still going strong and everybody who comes on it is very impressed with the condition. Our friends 12 year Hanse 345 is also still looking good.
I think all Hanses have a reputation of being good sailing yachts, though you have to accept that there is a slight difference between sailing a genoa driven yacht and an mainsail driven yacht.
I think we all have to accept that nearly all of the boat builders are making yachts which are targeted more towards the marina weekend sailor than somebody who is doing long distance cruising. It is more about the accommodation space looking modern, with storage space being a lower priority. Current Hanse yachts have the sheeting brought back to the helm, contrary to what was said earlier.
Choosing a yacht is a series of big compromises and you can not look at it from a simple score point of view.
For those on the forum who do not buy the YM, the latest edition covers the Hanse 360 and gives it a good right up.
I think all Hanses have a reputation of being good sailing yachts, though you have to accept that there is a slight difference between sailing a genoa driven yacht and an mainsail driven yacht.
I think we all have to accept that nearly all of the boat builders are making yachts which are targeted more towards the marina weekend sailor than somebody who is doing long distance cruising. It is more about the accommodation space looking modern, with storage space being a lower priority. Current Hanse yachts have the sheeting brought back to the helm, contrary to what was said earlier.
Choosing a yacht is a series of big compromises and you can not look at it from a simple score point of view.
For those on the forum who do not buy the YM, the latest edition covers the Hanse 360 and gives it a good right up.
Martin&Rene
Well-Known Member
Correction to thread 25. Last but one word should be "write", not "right". I blame it on having been on a long walk today.
shaunksb
Well-Known Member
We have a Hanse 320 further down our pontoon. Light grey hull and what I think is a great cockpit layout. Long traveller immediately in front of the helm and Genoa sheets brought back to either side.
It just seems to look “right” in proportion.
I can’t help a little lust…
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It just seems to look “right” in proportion.
I can’t help a little lust…
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ProMariner
Well-Known Member
"HanseYachts AG is a yacht group that includes the brands Hanse, Dehler, Moody, Fjord, and Sealine. HanseYachts AG develops and builds sailing and motor yachts at their shipyard in Greifswald."
Wouldn't say worse or better than Beneteau Group or Bavaria, all can produce workmanlike quality, all can turn out a lemon. The standard of local dealer will probably be the main differentiator for whether you have a good ownership experience, or never again. All will sell you a lot of boat for your money, with pretty big depreciation. They all sail like barges, but that's what the market likes. If you like the style of Hanse, don't be put off by anyone except a surveyor, they're fine, but with any modern volume boatbuilders, I don't think I would consider one more than ten or fifteen years old for serious sailing, as they can start feeling a bit flimsy, and difficult to repair and maintain, compared to heirloom brands. Deck gear screwed to aluminium inserts into the laminate, with no access to below, the egg box keel reinforcement difficult to inspect and impossible to clean, electronic power distribution systems, much of the wiring and plumbing hidden under interior mouldings, aluminium rudder stocks and brass thru hull fittings are all things the first owner probably won't be troubled with, but the second or third might have cause to regret.
I have always liked the style of Hanse, and they do sail well, if I had to choose a reasonably priced production boat, it'd be a close run between Hanse and Jeanneau, Hanse have better exteriors, but Jeanneau are nicer indoors, Hanse sail better upwind, Jeanneau sail better downwind. But might take an older X yacht or Dehler over either.
So, agree 4-6. Oyster / Grand Soliel 7. X yachts / Arcona / HR / Malo 8. Swan 9? 10 would imply perfection, hasn't happened so far, maybe Royal Huisman?
Wouldn't say worse or better than Beneteau Group or Bavaria, all can produce workmanlike quality, all can turn out a lemon. The standard of local dealer will probably be the main differentiator for whether you have a good ownership experience, or never again. All will sell you a lot of boat for your money, with pretty big depreciation. They all sail like barges, but that's what the market likes. If you like the style of Hanse, don't be put off by anyone except a surveyor, they're fine, but with any modern volume boatbuilders, I don't think I would consider one more than ten or fifteen years old for serious sailing, as they can start feeling a bit flimsy, and difficult to repair and maintain, compared to heirloom brands. Deck gear screwed to aluminium inserts into the laminate, with no access to below, the egg box keel reinforcement difficult to inspect and impossible to clean, electronic power distribution systems, much of the wiring and plumbing hidden under interior mouldings, aluminium rudder stocks and brass thru hull fittings are all things the first owner probably won't be troubled with, but the second or third might have cause to regret.
I have always liked the style of Hanse, and they do sail well, if I had to choose a reasonably priced production boat, it'd be a close run between Hanse and Jeanneau, Hanse have better exteriors, but Jeanneau are nicer indoors, Hanse sail better upwind, Jeanneau sail better downwind. But might take an older X yacht or Dehler over either.
So, agree 4-6. Oyster / Grand Soliel 7. X yachts / Arcona / HR / Malo 8. Swan 9? 10 would imply perfection, hasn't happened so far, maybe Royal Huisman?
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westernman
Well-Known Member
I strongly disagree. This video of a Beneteau does not look like it sails like a barge:-
Tranona
Well-Known Member
What a load of rubbish. Thousands of 20 and 30 year old boats from the mass producers giving excellent service all over the world in all kinds of situations.
ProMariner
Well-Known Member
Look at your 20 - 30 year old AWB, it had bronze seacocks, stainless rudder stock, thru bolted deck gear, small hull windows if any, and a simple switch panel with one wire per function, a very different proposition to maintain. Like a 20 - 30 year old car, we did much of our own maintenance and fault finding, now it's straight to the garage, everything is hidden under covers and behind shrouds, it's been designed to be built quickly, not to be user maintained.
The Beneteau Figaro is indeed not a barge, neither is the Dehler 30 OD, I love the Seascape based Beneteau First series, and of course Sun Fast are also having a moment in the sun with the 3300. But the OP was asking about Hanse, so this invites more Beneteau Oceanis / Jeanneau Sun Odyssey / Bavaria Cruiser comparison, prioritising interior volume over slipperiness, this isn't a negative if what you want from a boat is interior volume, entertaining space, and plenty of freeboard for a nice dry ride. They probably sell 50 cruisers to each fast boat, same as car manufacturers the performance product is mainly about brand image, the profit is from the everyman product.
The Beneteau Figaro is indeed not a barge, neither is the Dehler 30 OD, I love the Seascape based Beneteau First series, and of course Sun Fast are also having a moment in the sun with the 3300. But the OP was asking about Hanse, so this invites more Beneteau Oceanis / Jeanneau Sun Odyssey / Bavaria Cruiser comparison, prioritising interior volume over slipperiness, this isn't a negative if what you want from a boat is interior volume, entertaining space, and plenty of freeboard for a nice dry ride. They probably sell 50 cruisers to each fast boat, same as car manufacturers the performance product is mainly about brand image, the profit is from the everyman product.
Steamkettle
New Member
After 8 years of 5 month/year liveaboard and many thousands of offshore and coastal miles in my now-17 years old Hanse 400 I'd respectfully disagree. Yes, the IKEA-like furniture is more flimsy than that in the vessels described above but we've easily managed to maintain it in good condition. The statement that it 'sails like a barge' had me laughing loudly, recalling last season when we sped through a fleet of 'quality' Dutch vessels off Dungeness in a F4/5, later zooming past a HR40 hobby-horsing off Alderney. I've certainly had some challenging maintenance issues but no fewer and no less challenging than with previous boats, which included an HR, Moody, Westerly and Morgan Giles. Indeed, when the keel had to be removed to check for grounding damage (sustained in a previous ownership!) the very experienced repairer commented that the keel was 'the toughest b@..... he'd ever had to remove". The Surveyor was highly appreciative of the strength of the hull/keel matrix and fastenings.
If I had shedloads of money I'd probably have a Sirius 40 - but I don't; every boat is a compromise in so many different ways. When I had the vessel surveyed before purchase the Surveyor remarked that while money had been saved to make them affordable, "Hanses are very strong where they need to be". One look at the well-engineered (and easily accessible) chainplates would confirm that.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Something wrong with your terminology here. AWB is the term normally used to describe the boats you are slagging off. I assume you are talking about the features of the 30-50 year old boats that you claim are superior.
Can't see how you come to the view that these boats (particularly the mid 90's to around 2010) are not suitable for user maintenance. One of the reasons they are popular with charter operators is that they are easy to maintain - certainly my experience having owned a charter boat. You may find this interesting bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php/topic,1931.0.html You will see that few of the things you mention come up as issues. The main issues are to do with gear found on just about all boats - Volvo engines, Lewmar hatches and windows in particular. There is really nothing that is beyond DIY.
I agree that boats of the last 15 years or so have become more complex, partly the digital electrical systems and partly the explosion in electronic gear and some domestics like freezers, microwaves powered tables, but this thread was started in 2010 and focused on under 40' boats which at the time were still simple and easy to maintain.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
Really easy to get caught by this and think that its a current discussion rather than one 15 years old.
I dont generally subscribe to the idea that everything is worse than it was - if anything it seems to me that many things are better. Cars and clothing for example. And food. But in the case of sailing yachts there is little doubt that the drive to make boats ever more affordable in the face of ever rising costs has forced boatbuilders to cheapen particularly the internal fittings. MDF rather than solid hardwood for example. Perhaps they are recognising, as is obvious in our marina and I am sure many others, that most boats are rarely occupied and even more rarely sailed.
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Have you actually seen instances of MDF being used by the mainstream yacht manufacturers- I have no experience of MOBOs so just stick to yachts please
If you have, can you tell us how exterior grade MDF performs any worse than hardwood, bearing in mind that hardwood moves with moisture & MDF exterior grade does not. The cores of my panels & table of my Hanse are all plywood. As are the bulkheads
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Made a bit more complicated because the thread was revived with a question about a completely different type of Hanse from the original question.
I agree - there is a lot of rose tinted spectacles around the "quality" of older products. Almost all the owners and potential owners of modern boats I have come across have owned older style boats from the golden era of UK boatbuilding and very few would want to go back. Sure there are lots of memories of the great times they had, but most prefer the improvements that are obvious in newer boats. Same with cars, it is only when you drive cars you lusted after when you were young that you realise how poor they are.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Same with my Bavarias, However the doors had composite cores with wood frames. Many newer boats have composite bulkheads as ply is heavy and expensive. The latest Hanses have very little in the way veneered panels now except for the flat pack type interior furniture
matt1
Well-Known Member
When buying my Hanse in 2019 I poured over all the major brands at Düsseldorf, poking behind lockers, looking under sole boards and even looking at core samples from hulls in some cases!
I would put Hanse as “above average” from the pack of mass manufacturers with Hanse, Beneteau and Bavaria being pretty comparable. If you look at displacement, Hanse (like for like) tend to be heavier. This may be a function of not using vacuum molding and using balsa over divinycell core but it may also be reflective of how many bulkheads are glassed in. Having traded up from a Hunter that literally everything was laminated in, it was a pleasant surprise to see so many bulkheads and webs properly laminated. The main bulkhead between saloon and forecabin is especially thick plywood. Cosmetically there is good and precise application of flow coat in all the right places too. Fair enough, that won’t hold the boat together any better, but it speaks to a degree of care and attention. The few issues I’ve had are mainly with 3rd party equipment (Lewmar especially!) but I console myself that even HR were using the same gear and they cost a lot more!
I think it’s fair to say since they acquired Dehler the Hanse range has become more “cruiser” and there are times when I’d like a bit less displacement and wetted surface area but she acquitted herself very well in the round the island race and is the most balanced boat I’ve ever helmed
I would put Hanse as “above average” from the pack of mass manufacturers with Hanse, Beneteau and Bavaria being pretty comparable. If you look at displacement, Hanse (like for like) tend to be heavier. This may be a function of not using vacuum molding and using balsa over divinycell core but it may also be reflective of how many bulkheads are glassed in. Having traded up from a Hunter that literally everything was laminated in, it was a pleasant surprise to see so many bulkheads and webs properly laminated. The main bulkhead between saloon and forecabin is especially thick plywood. Cosmetically there is good and precise application of flow coat in all the right places too. Fair enough, that won’t hold the boat together any better, but it speaks to a degree of care and attention. The few issues I’ve had are mainly with 3rd party equipment (Lewmar especially!) but I console myself that even HR were using the same gear and they cost a lot more!
I think it’s fair to say since they acquired Dehler the Hanse range has become more “cruiser” and there are times when I’d like a bit less displacement and wetted surface area but she acquitted herself very well in the round the island race and is the most balanced boat I’ve ever helmed
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
I think you will find that hardwoods are no longer available in the quantities required by mass produced products, and where they are available they are extortionately expensive, so much so that even superyacht builders are being fined for where they source hardwoods from. That ship has sailed, literally, and mass produced hardwood interiors are a thing of the past.
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Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
They are stiff, structurally for sure. It’s one reason for their above average performance. Our boat is totally outside the normal box, but of the usual run of cruising boats, Hanse are the ones that take us longest to overhaul. It’s quite noticeable. Nothing short of a 40ft grand prix mono has a chance of staying ahead of us, and then they’d need luck with the course, but Hanses ate always moving well. Again, the rather pared back interior helps them. You can’t have it all with any boat. The 3 important factors of comfort/quality (in the sense of plushness) performance and price are interrelated. Quality in the sense of good engineering and design can be cheaper in the long run for both builder and owner.