Hanse - problems with lifting keels??

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herdman

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Just wondered if anyone had heard of good or bad things about Hanses with lifting keels.. I assume they can dry out upright (do they have twin rudders?). I also assume the perormance is not quite up to the standard keel variety - anybody got any views? Also just generally does anyone have views on the boat's general build quality (eg compared to a Bavaria / jeanneau / benneteau?? I am more concerned with the structural integrity rather than the interior fittings etc
thanks v mcuh
 
when looking for a new boat with "take to the ground" capability I was told by both hanse and benny that their drop keel boats were not designed for repeated grounding as with a drying mooring. they were intended as shallow draft.,

suggest you ask them what their view is if you wish to use a drying mooring - they might now have a different story. incidentally, it used to be the case with the bennies that lifting the keel was something like 100 turns on a winch. if that is the case nowadays, then I can see why they arent a choice for a drying mooring.

i doubt that any difference in sailing ability would be detectable unless you intend to use the boat for racing. in the real world, there's precious little difference between bilge and fin so likely to be even less between two varieties of fin. maybe a bit more tender, but then bennies are tender anyway.

if you need drying out capability, have a look at feeling. one step up from the general run of french boats.
 
thanks - i think this sounds right - would not really be looking to dry out the whole time but just good to be able to dry out every now and then...
 
We have a Beneteau 323 .. Its great .. 100 turns up and down is about right .. Mind you when you run aground its supprising how fast you can do it .. Our winder is located in the table top .. Just use the winch handle .. Twin rudders are fun .. No prop wash so you have to be on he move .. Sure makes getting into our marina slot good fun backwards .. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The problem with lifting keels (in general) is that, if they take the ground, it tends to force mud, pebbles and sand into the keelbox. 9 times out of ten this will wash out when sailing & the keel is lowered. Just occasionally it will gum up the keel completely, it can then be a real pain to get it out again.

Other issues, long term are wear on hingepins or failure of lifting mechanism. this latter can cause keel to drop suddenly, sheering the pivot pin. But don't let this put you off, just avoid drying in clay/ mud & maintain the systems as recommended by the manufacturer and you are very unlikely to have any problems.
 
I have a Hanse 342.

Hanse build quality is very good. They are strongly built boats - all the bulkheads are laminated to the hull and the deckhead for instance - not something that can be said for all volume manufacturers.

IMO Hanses are excellent value for money but one does have to realise they are built to a price and against a bill of materials. This means there is little or no option for variation from the standard options list. From the perspective of the bill of materials, the quality of some components is not as good as one might like. For instance the running rigging - I changed all my halliards to dyneema almost immediately and the deck gear - they recently changed from Harken to Lewmar which was a retrograde step in IMHO. All that said the fundament construction of the boats is very sound.

Much more importantly the dealer service is excellent so if you do have a problem it gets sorted out without any dramas. This is particularly the case with Hanse UK.

Regards,

Ed
 
Some rather glib assumptions there, Searush

First you're confusing lift-keels with centre-boards.

Thet are quite different - centre boards either rotate about a pin or slide in a housing and the boat has the majority of its ballast bonded in to the bottom of the boat.
Lift keels have all the ballast in the lifting keel itself.

You comments are correct about centre-boarders, especially those rotating about a pin. Additional problems are slap and movement around the axis causing wear.

The sliding "dagger board" (as in the Parker 272) seldom has such problems but, as Ellen MacArthur found, a collision can cause them to jam.

With true lift-keelers the problems are different, an their order of magnitude rather greater, but jamming due to debris is not one of them!
 
Re: Hanse - problems with lifting keels?? Solo circumnavigation

Hi Merline, I was wondering the same thing.
I am planning to purchase a Hanse 63e for a solo circumnavigation. non-stop around the three capes.

after the circumnavigation, id like to use the yacht as a cruser, hence the 'lifting keele' option.

I will be sailing non-stop aroudn the three capes.
however, was wondering if the lifting keel (with all the mechanism) would survive all the beating the boat is going to have in the southern ocean?

also, what is ur overall opinion on teh suitability of a hanse for such a voyage?
is the basic build quality good enough (i plan to modify the yacht quite a bit). In terms of cost , i find going with a production boat and minor modifications is the most economical versus building a brand new yacht.

appreciate yoour thoughts on the lifting keel.
was just wondering with all the pitching and rolling, if its going to come loose or fall off?

thanks
 
Re: Hanse - problems with lifting keels?? Solo circumnavigation

I have a Hanse 312 lift keel which is a great boat and as Edessery has said a good compromise between price and quality, BUT i really don't think i would like to take it or any other Hanse into the southern ocean i don't think they are designed for that kind of sailing, surely by the time you have bought it and modified it, it would be cheaper and easier to buy something more suitable to start with.
 
[ QUOTE ]
when looking for a new boat with "take to the ground" capability I was told by both hanse and benny that their drop keel boats were not designed for repeated grounding as with a drying mooring. they were intended as shallow draft.,

suggest you ask them what their view is if you wish to use a drying mooring - they might now have a different story. incidentally, it used to be the case with the bennies that lifting the keel was something like 100 turns on a winch. if that is the case nowadays, then I can see why they arent a choice for a drying mooring.

i doubt that any difference in sailing ability would be detectable unless you intend to use the boat for racing. in the real world, there's precious little difference between bilge and fin so likely to be even less between two varieties of fin. maybe a bit more tender, but then bennies are tender anyway.

if you need drying out capability, have a look at feeling. one step up from the general run of french boats.

[/ QUOTE ]

My Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 35 Lift keel (same keel as Beneteau 343 LK) is SIGNIFICANTLY slower than its fin keel cousins, but I chose it for other useful properties.

I agree they should not be dried out continually.
I have learned that if you leave the keel 5 turns down (yes, mine is 104 turns, use an electric 12v drill) you can work the mud out by raising and lowering a couple of times when you are underway.
 
Re: Hanse - problems with lifting keels?? Solo circumnavigation

[ QUOTE ]
I will be sailing non-stop aroudn the three capes.
however, was wondering if the lifting keel (with all the mechanism) would survive all the beating the boat is going to have in the southern ocean?

also, what is ur overall opinion on teh suitability of a hanse for such a voyage?
thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Can anyone comment on the AVS of round the world yachts (Whitbread etc) and whats the AVS of a Hanse 63 e?

I know its not the whole story but just curious.
 
Re: Hanse - problems with lifting keels?? Solo circumnavigation

Assuming you're not trolling ...

You are planning to do two completely different things with the boat. My suggestion would be to use two different boats.
 
Dear Sailors

Hanse has problems with standard foxed keels included many yacht with a standing heel in excess of two degrees.

I can´t imagine how they can design a lifting keel while they are still guessing how to made a fixed keel.

Zen Cap
 
[ QUOTE ]
Dear Sailors

Hanse has problems with standard foxed keels included many yacht with a standing heel in excess of two degrees.

I can´t imagine how they can design a lifting keel while they are still guessing how to made a fixed keel.

Zen Cap

[/ QUOTE ]

4 posts. 4 pops at Hanse.
Got a bit of an agenda then?
 
Re: Hanse - problems with lifting keels?? Solo circumnavigation

Thats what I would be asking as well... I was looking at the 430... which is a stunning boat... but IIRC her AVS is something like 110 degrees.... and this is without radar, etc... I dont think these boats are designed for RTW via the Capes non stop..... I think it is pretty clear that these are Med or Caribean boats.... frankly with a AVS of 110 I would not take it across the atlantic...
We say that AVS is not everything, but its a very good start!

I think that planning to take a lift keep Hanse RTW via the southern ocean is being pretty damn ambitious.......
 
Re: Hanse - problems with lifting keels?? Solo circumnavigation

[ QUOTE ]
Thats what I would be asking as well... I was looking at the 430... which is a stunning boat... but IIRC her AVS is something like 110 degrees.... and this is without radar, etc... I dont think these boats are designed for RTW via the Capes non stop..... I think it is pretty clear that these are Med or Caribean boats.... frankly with a AVS of 110 I would not take it across the atlantic...
We say that AVS is not everything, but its a very good start!

I think that planning to take a lift keep Hanse RTW via the southern ocean is being pretty damn ambitious.......

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Ovnis are well thought of, but they also have a low AVS...

see previous thread here.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/774448/an/0/page/0
 
Re: Hanse - problems with lifting keels?? Solo circumnavigation

yeah, but Ovni's are made from Aluminium, so a lot stronger....and they have a lift keel which keeps them from "Triping" on their own keel when hit by the breaking wave.... Just a much much stronger boat all round... Though i would still be concerned about recovering from the inversion.... If the guy wants a boat to do the southern ocean in then maybe a new big southerly would be better.... big lift keel but still a very high AVS, and a much more protected cockpit... though I dont know how comfortable the hull will be.... ala the Hanse... The Hanse as well is just wide open aft... very VOR.... I cant help but think it would be a lot of work in big seas, with the helm sitting way out back totally exposed.....

Problem with te Hanse lift keel is that it reduces draft but you still have a short keel... so it can still trip..... i would be very interested to see the AVS as well as the shape and size of the curve under the line... How stable would she be inverted I wonder....
 
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 35 Lift keel

[/QUOTE]
My Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 35 Lift keel (same keel as Beneteau 343 LK) is SIGNIFICANTLY slower than its fin keel cousins, but I chose it for other useful properties.

I agree they should not be dried out continually.
I have learned that if you leave the keel 5 turns down (yes, mine is 104 turns, use an electric 12v drill) you can work the mud out by raising and lowering a couple of times when you are underway.[/QUOTE]


Hi - I was just about to offer on a SO35 liftkeel to keep on a drying mooring at Wells-next-the-Sea in Norfolk. Based on the above do you think this is a bad idea? If so, is this down to problems of the mechanism blocking? Any comments/advise would be much appreciated!
 
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