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Lakesailor

Lakesailor

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.....concur with what Sophie19 said in the thread on diesel engines.
To be honest chaps(esses) I would not put to sea in a boat whose systems I did not fully understand.
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Judging by many of the threads we see on these forums I would say many people have a sketchy idea and some no idea whatsoever.

Some know as much as they can find out.

Does it matter? Which systems require understanding and which ( if any) can be safely ignored?
 
I'm firmly in the 'fix it yourself if at all possible' camp .. on that basis I have (or at least I think I have) a good working knowledge of all the systems onboard.

I wouldn't go as far as to say I fully understand them - infact I doubt (m)any could fully understand the circuitboards in the VHF or Chartplotters - or the firmware that runs them - along with schematics of the fuel system, engine, heater, fridge - and that's without understanding how all the bits of rigging go together...
Having dismantled the furler when replacing the rigging I'm happy I could do that again ...

So - no - I'm happy to put to sea in a boat that I have a good working knowledge of without having a full understanding of individual components.
 
I'll be the first to jump in ready to be flamed: I have never put to sea in a boat whose systems I fully understood.
 
I was not in the queue when electrical knowledge was being handed out so beyond checking fuses and circuit breakers, it's make-a-call-and-pay-the-money time. OTOH, I'll struggle through rigging, plumbing and engine related problems, only making the call when I've thoroughly screwed-up!
 
.... or without someone on board who did understand them.
In many aspects of our lives complexity is such that understanding has had to be replaced by procedures based on historic risk analyses. So far sailing boats have not reached a level of complexity where understanding of the safety critical systems is beyond the wit of a single brain.
The days when anyone could wander down the beach of a seaside resort, hire a small motor boat with a single cylinder Stuart-Turner petrol engine with a "go" pedal, no life jackets, no comms other than the eagle eye of the hirer, range limited only by the half pint of fuel in the tank, and head off to sea are, alas, no longer.
 
They all came here

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Whilst I probably have a good understanding of all of the bits on my boat there are a lot of people who don't have the foggiest. Why should they? It still astounds me that most people phone the AA, RAC etc to change a flippin' flat tyre these days.

I'd be more concerned that people put to sea with a sensible approach to things, a health distrust of diesels, fuel, electronics, electrics, safety, GPS etc.

The attitude is key I think. If we can get people to understand that the sea will kill you very quickly if you are not ...... I don't want to say careful so much as organised or at least aware of how dangerous things can be.

So no I don't think a total understanding of all the systems aboard is fundamental. I do think that that attitude is part of 'nanny state thinking'. Bring back common sense!
 
nimbusgb said:
I'd be more concerned that people put to sea with a sensible approach to things, a health distrust of diesels, fuel, electronics, electrics, safety, GPS etc.
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Out of curiosity, why GPS? I can't think of anything on any boat that I have ever sailed on that has been more reliable than the GPS.
 
It's not nescersarily the GPS itself that will go wrong - but what if you loose the mushroom or the power source to the unit fails - you have 'no gps' ... so best to know where you are - or at least have a way of determining where you are most likely to be ...

These days GPS sources are plentiful - and with 2 chartplotters onboard (different power feeds) it's unlikely I'll loose a fix - but if I do I have a USB GPS stick for the laptop and iPhone - so 2 independantly powered GPS devices - it does assume that the satelites are still working!!
 
I know enough about all the major systems on boats I sail so that in the event I were to suffer a breakdown or whatever, I'd have a "plan", I'd not necessarily know enough to fix the actual problem but I'd hope to know enough to be able to bypass the broken system if necessary.

For e.g. I've paid to have a new Yanmar engine installed in my boat because I know my own limitations, but I also do know how a diesel engine works and the most common causes of failure so (for another e.g.) I've taken 4 metres of spare fuel line in order I can bypass the electrical fuel pump and set up a gravity fed fuel feed should the fuel pump or dirty fuel cause problems.

Generally speaking, the less important systems such as electronics and stuff won't cause me more than inconvenience so no need for me to understand more than how to change a fuse, or operate the factory reset/reboot button! If that doesn't sort it then I'll live without it until I reach a technician who can fix it.

Cheers, Brian.
 
Fireball - you make my point.

First of all, I have NEVER seen any GPS unit fail for any reason whatsoever, and there isn't anything more reliable than that. Second - and this is the point you make - there are so many backups available on board, that the only reason to distrust GPS is if there is a systemic failure. Again, something that has never happened and is unlikely to.

Nimbus might as well have said that it is good to go to sea with a healthy distrust of fibreglass hulls, or bolt-on keels. Like GPS, the (catastrophic) failure rate of those things is so low as to be almost negligible.
 
bbg said:
I'll be the first to jump in ready to be flamed: I have never put to sea in a boat whose systems I fully understood.
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Just about sums it up for the majority.

Most of the things are novelty options on a saily boat, so I guess the stuff to really bone up on is the rig,
 
Oh dear. I just knew mentioning GPS was going to get me the wrong response.

I managed to cause quite a commotion on the start line of a National Gliding championship when a car GPS antenna went belly up an blatted everyones signal on the start line. I trust my GPS implicitly.

Please try to understand the sentiment of the post. I didn't say GPS will fail.

Oh blimey here we go!
 
nimbusgb said:
I trust my GPS implicitly.
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Do you mean that in the present tense? If so it is at odds with the view you posted above ?

I don't doubt that there are people who do have implicit trust in their GPS - but given that it already has a limit of accuracy I tend to give mine conditional trust - based on unrelated systems and spacial awareness.

Not entirely "GPS" - but for a while our chartplotter (with inbuilt GPS) would show double the Log miles for a trip - ie Chichester -> Beaulieu ~ 18Nm - would show a trip log as ~ 36Nm ... I think this is enough of an error to have a healthy 'distrust' of the GPS - it's not that I don't use it - just that it's not used blindly!
 
Isn't it the case that one of the attractions of sailing (as opposed to MoBos for example) is that it is essentially fundamental? By which I mean that a proper sailor isn't (or shouldn't) be dependent on the various complex systems that support and facilitate our safe passage, but aren't essential. To be able to raise a sail, set it so as to travel in the desired direction, and have sufficient skill and knowledge to decide what that direction is, is fundamental. All else is strictly speaking unnecessary (though highly desirable, I wouldn't argue)

I wouldn't dream of going to sea (alone) in a MoBo without some basic idea of what to do in the case of an engine failure - because without the engine you're buggered - but a sail boat is different - and for me at least that's part of the attraction.
 
Very true. Yet many mobo pilots are in that situation. Bought a boat, like a car, don't know much about it.

I know, I know. Lots do know there way around the engine-room.
 
What level of knowledge do you mean?

I have a working understanding of the principle behind every system on board Capricious - even the GPS. It isn't that hard; diesel engines aren't really that complicated, and electricity is school science. I admit that on navigational systems I have an advantage - it is my day job! But the PRINCIPLE of even GPS is basic navigational theory; it is, in principle, the same process as getting a fix by using "distance off" from several known points.

In fact the system where my THEORETICAL knowledge is most limited is actually the sails - fluid dynamics being a very difficult and demanding topic that I have never had to study! But there, my PRACTICAL understanding and feel for the systems (and a rough and ready appreciation of Bernoulli's principle) is good enough to get me from A to B safely.

But that understanding of the PRINCIPLES doesn't translate well into practical, get my hands dirty, sort of ability to work on a system. I was very reluctant, for example, to work on the diesel engine until I did the RYA Diesel engine course a few months ago and gained practical experience of the way they are put together. Since then I have assisted my brother in giving the engine an overhaul of the top-end, and now think my wife and I could cope reasonably well. And some things - like electronics - don't lend themselves to DIY fixes; if they break, they are pretty much unfixable without detailed electronic knowledge and a suitable set of test equipment - and not even then if they involve custom chips or encapsulated circuitry.

Then again there are areas where the implementation matters. I understand electricity as well as any other person with A-level Physics, and know Ohm's and Kirchoff's Laws well enough to compute how a given circuit should work - not that I'd ever be likely to do it! But this is an area where the way in which the underlying physical principles have been implemented in practical circuits matters far more than those same principles.

I'd say that I have a good enough level of knowledge of most systems to attempt a fix or a work-around if I had to. In some cases, I could do quite well - in others' I'd have to do a lot of head-scratching and working out. In some cases I could reach an answer, but it might not be by a route that a person trained in the systems would use!
 
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