Halyard hitch vs Bowline ?

[Boo2]

Hi,

Had a spot of rigging done yesterday and the rigger showed me a knot, new to me, which he called a "blood knot" but which is identical to the halyard hitch shown at this site : http://www.animatedknots.com/halyar...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Can anyone compare and contrst this to the bowline for me ? He used it to tie ropes to shackles and traveller cars etc...

Boo2

 

[sailorbaz]

It's a blood knot which I use to tie a fishing hook to the leader - only I put on six turns before feeding the end through.
Never thought of using it for halyards though!
Sailorbaz

 

[pete]

I use this knot for fastening the main halyard to the shackle at the head of the main sail, it is much shorter than a bowline and prevents the knot jamming in the mast sheave.
Pete

 

[ccscott49]

I use it for halyard to shackle and as a stopper knot, instead of a figure of eight.

 

[sailorman]

Hi,

Had a spot of rigging done yesterday and the rigger showed me a knot, new to me, which he called a "blood knot" but which is identical to the halyard hitch shown at this site : http://www.animatedknots.com/halyar...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Can anyone compare and contrst this to the bowline for me ? He used it to tie ropes to shackles and traveller cars etc...

Boo2

that hitch is what i do but with a longer tail,as shown is liable to shake undone

 

[jwilson]

If you make it in new shiny braided you have to tension it really hard to lock it together - putting one on a new main halliard a few weeks ago I had to stretch the line and shackle between two cockpit winches wound hard till it really locked tight. Then you cut and seal the short end and it's there for the life of the halliard - you have to cut it to get it off the shackle. It was new to me when I got a new boat with all halliard/line terminations done that way, but it works very well. Also heard it called a Selden knot - from the mastmaker.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, recommended by Selden for halyards.

Would not compare it with a bowline which is a completely different knot for different application.

 

[johnalison]

A halyard knot that has been used for a while is near enough impossible to undo. This is mainly a virtue since by that time you will probably be discarding the line anyway.

 

[LittleSister]

What is the advantage of a more or less undoable knot to fasten the halyard to the sail over a spliced eye?

We have a shackle on a spliced eye. The advantage of the shackle to me is we can readily remove the halyard from the sail and fasten it away from the mast when not in use to avoid noise. Obviously the shackle could be joined to the halyard by a knot rather than a spliced eye, but what are the relative merits?

 

[silver-fox]

What is the advantage of a more or less undoable knot to fasten the halyard to the sail over a spliced eye?

We have a shackle on a spliced eye. The advantage of the shackle to me is we can readily remove the halyard from the sail and fasten it away from the mast when not in use to avoid noise. Obviously the shackle could be joined to the halyard by a knot rather than a spliced eye, but what are the relative merits?

Its more compact. I don't have the vertical distance to use a spliced eye and shackle. Also you can "end for end" your halyard to spread the wear out when you have a knot rather than an eye.

Going back to the OP's original question the biggest difference between a halyard hitch and a bowline is: -

1. The Halyard hitch is much more compact
2. With braid it will slip slightly until pulled very tight
3. Once tight its very difficult/impossible to undo and usually has to be cut off.

(I realise I have summarised other posts.... but this is also my personal experience!)

 

[davidej]

I use this knot for fastening the main halyard to the shackle at the head of the main sail, it is much shorter than a bowline and prevents the knot jamming in the mast sheave.
Pete

+1

 

[alant]

Hi,

Had a spot of rigging done yesterday and the rigger showed me a knot, new to me, which he called a "blood knot" but which is identical to the halyard hitch shown at this site : http://www.animatedknots.com/halyar...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Can anyone compare and contrst this to the bowline for me ? He used it to tie ropes to shackles and traveller cars etc...

Boo2

Also similar to a hangman's noose, if you run the turns & tail the other way.

I use blood knots on my deck shoe lace ends, so I can distinguish em from all the others onboard. Look pretty as well.

(IIRC, a noose uses 13 turns for peasants & 21 for aristo's)

 

[alan_d]

.
We have a shackle on a spliced eye. The advantage of the shackle to me is we can readily remove the halyard from the sail and fasten it away from the mast when not in use to avoid noise. Obviously the shackle could be joined to the halyard by a knot rather than a spliced eye, but what are the relative merits?

With a spliced eye there is the risk of the halyard slipping off the shackle when you open it. You can overcome this by using a shackle with a retaining bar, but if your halyard is attached to the shackle with a halyard knot that is unnecessary.

 

[knuterikt]

Knots and Dyneemea is not a good combination,
Read this page http://www.bethandevans.com/load.htm
Some views on splice / vs knot
http://www.marlowropes.com/splicing-instructions.html
Read this text "How to terminate the working end of halyards." here http://briontoss.com/

A proper splice on Dyneema will in most cases not prevent a full hoist of the sail.
If you need a knife to end for end - what the knot a better solution?

 

[Fantasie 19]

Makes a good title for a book as well..

 

[jwilson]

What is the advantage of a more or less undoable knot to fasten the halyard to the sail over a spliced eye?

We have a shackle on a spliced eye. The advantage of the shackle to me is we can readily remove the halyard from the sail and fasten it away from the mast when not in use to avoid noise. Obviously the shackle could be joined to the halyard by a knot rather than a spliced eye, but what are the relative merits?

I don't think anyone is suggesting using a halyard/blood/selden knot to tie directly to the sail - it always goes on a shackle, and is tight enough that the shackle will not slip out when the pin is removed. Much more compact and secure than a small bowline in braid, and as reliable as a splice. Nothing wrong with a splice, but you can only splice braid if you have the correct tools and the rope is new - very difficult on old rope.

I have just put on a new main halyard, buying 36 instead of 34 metres (minimum needed) rope. With this knot and the 3 metres extra rope you can easily cut off the knot and remake it several times, each time thus moving the main stress/jammer wear points, and then end for end it and repeat the process if you like.

 

[sailorman]

I don't think anyone is suggesting using a halyard/blood/selden knot to tie directly to the sail - it always goes on a shackle, and is tight enough that the shackle will not slip out when the pin is removed. Much more compact and secure than a small bowline in braid, and as reliable as a splice. Nothing wrong with a splice, but you can only splice braid if you have the correct tools and the rope is new - very difficult on old rope.

I have just put on a new main halyard, buying 36 instead of 34 metres (minimum needed) rope. With this knot and the 3 metres extra rope you can easily cut off the knot and remake it several times, each time thus moving the main stress/jammer wear points, and then end for end it and repeat the process if you like.

The best option + enabling end for ending as well. i always used to make an eye splice but no more, i get to more wear out of the rope this way

 

[JayBee]

This knot is a little different to the knot recommended by Selden.
See here:

 

[CreakyDecks]

It's a blood knot which I use to tie a fishing hook to the leader - only I put on six turns before feeding the end through.
Never thought of using it for halyards though!
Sailorbaz

There are far better knots for tying hooks on. The blood knot performs quite badly on wet nylon monofilament.

 

[Stemar]

Also similar to a hangman's noose, if you run the turns & tail the other way.
...
(IIRC, a noose uses 13 turns for peasants & 21 for aristo's)

I have a hangman's noose, albeit with only 3 turns (I'm ovbiously a lot less than a peasant) round a hard eye on my topping lift. It amused the rigger who checked my boat this spring, but he was quite happy with it.