Hallberg Rassy or Moody?

pandroid said:
Essentially one's a Ford and one's a Mercedes. They both do the biz, but....

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I own neither but I suspect that the poster is a bit nearer than he thinks with the above comment. One is a famous brand that charges a lot for the name but doesnt live up to the rep any longer. Mercedes if you like and if you read the reliability stats. The other is a Ford which is looked down on by snobby types but is arguably as well / better made and far better value. You chose the first for the badge and the second for economy.
 
I had this conversation with swmbo at the weekend but comparing an HR352 to a Moody 346 and Westerly Seahawk. The price difference for similar aged boat was about £20k.

So, we could go in a Halberg in style, or a Moody in slightly less style but another £20k in the cruising account or a Seahawk and have another £35k in the cruising account.

Seahawk is the clear winner here, even though we have long aspired to a HR.
 
Slow_boat said:
I had this conversation with swmbo at the weekend but comparing an HR352 to a Moody 346 and Westerly Seahawk. The price difference for similar aged boat was about £20k.

So, we could go in a Halberg in style, or a Moody in slightly less style but another £20k in the cruising account or a Seahawk and have another £35k in the cruising account.

Seahawk is the clear winner here, even though we have long aspired to a HR.
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how much was the seahawk?
 
Slow_boat said:
I had this conversation with swmbo at the weekend but comparing an HR352 to a Moody 346 and Westerly Seahawk. The price difference for similar aged boat was about £20k.

So, we could go in a Halberg in style, or a Moody in slightly less style but another £20k in the cruising account or a Seahawk and have another £35k in the cruising account.

Seahawk is the clear winner here, even though we have long aspired to a HR.
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That kind of price differential exists at all size/age points. 10 year old 36/7 footers range from £50k for a Bavaria like mine, to £70k for a slightly older Moody to £110k for an HR 36.

Loss in value over time will be very little different, so it boils down to how much of your assets you want to have tied up in a boat - and whether you value the undoubted "extra" that goes with the more expensive boat. If you don't have the resources in the first place - or only limited resources the decision is made for you. Lower price boat or do without.
 
Slow_boat said:
Seahawk is the clear winner here, even though we have long aspired to a HR.
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My wife & I trial-sailed a Seahawk some years ago. The abnormally high centre cockpit felt very strange, and the huge climb down into the cavernous saloon was offputting. In the end, I bought a Corsair instead.

For the last 15 years, I've had a HR352, and I can tell you it's an infinitely easier boat to live with than a Seahawk. It's very well built, very well thought-out, and holds its value.
 
Slow_boat said:
I had this conversation with swmbo at the weekend but comparing an HR352 to a Moody 346 and Westerly Seahawk. The price difference for similar aged boat was about £20k.

So, we could go in a Halberg in style, or a Moody in slightly less style but another £20k in the cruising account or a Seahawk and have another £35k in the cruising account.

Seahawk is the clear winner here, even though we have long aspired to a HR.
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If you are buying on price alone, then you are probably right. However, think about why the Seahawk has become so much cheaper - it hasnt retained its value like the others, and not without good reason... IMVHO.
 
wotayottie said:
As one boat salesman put it to me, and he was a competitor to HR, "Halberg Rassy win the depreciation argument every time".
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But mainly in recent years because of the escalating price and waiting list for new boats. While the residual against purchase price looks strong, it is not so good against replacement cost, which explains why late models hold their price so well. A 7 or 8 year old 36 at £160k (about what it cost new) looks a bargain compared with a new 37 at £100k at least more - and a waiting list.

That is only sustainable if demand for new boats remains strong and supply is constrained.
 
They are two different boats in a slightly different class. If you've got your mind set on a HR, go for it. I'm sure you won't be disapointed. A Moody you might, the later ones might not fit the bill.
The capital layout is relevant to what you are buying and HR's will always be that one above.

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We went through a similar exercise looking at HRs and Moodys, albeit 36 footers about 13 years ago. We sailed briefly a number of second hand HR36s and in the end opted for a new Moody 36, for a similar price to a 5 or 6 yr old HR.

Main factors in choice were:
Advantage of having a new boat to ones own spec of add-ons etc.
Moody is definitely roomier below. SWMBO preferring the Galley and larger aft cabin with island bunk.
Also, we preferred the lighter woodwork interior of Moody vice the darker Mahogany of HR.

Both yachts are well built and comparatively strong compared with many current French and German yards, although the HR is generally better looking and more up market than the Moody. Sailing ability is very similar. Certainly the Dixon Moodys can hold there own against most similar yachts. The Moody cockpit is a little higher than the HR and can at times feel exposed. However, this has never worried us and we have encountered pretty rough weather.

One factor worth mentioning is that older HRs have the teak decks screwed into the grp. This can cause problems in later life and will need replacing at some point in time.

I doubt you will be disappointed with either, it being a matter of personal preference and money :)
 
alant said:
HR's, are well built, but some have the disadvantage of having little stowage space, since there is tankage (water & fuel) taking up much of the space under the saloon, making them a little heavy & sometimes slow for their size.
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Not in my experience on a HR36.

We spent a winter in a two bedroom Spanish apartment one year. We could not fit all the stuff from the galley lockers into the kitchen.

One water tank is under the cabin sole and one under the port saloon berth; you use the saloon tank first to keep the weight lower down. Fuel tank is also under the cabin sole aft of water. Any inconvenience of losing that stowage was amply compensated by the convenience of 360 litres of water for our travels.

In spite of being a Frers design we did not find the performance particularly stunning - more 'reassuring' perhaps.
 
HR 39

Hi Bloater,

I have a 12 year old HR 39 which I have owned from new. She is currently in the Med. and definitely not for sale.
If you would like to PM me, I would be happy to answer any of your queries regarding the HR39. However, I have not sailed a Moody 40 so cannot compare the two..

Kind regards,

Steve White.
 
We looked at both and are now on our second Moody. We did put a bid in for an HR some years ago but when we found out how much the timber deck repairs were going to cost - thousands! - we pulled out. An aquaintance spent £50,000 having a 40 ft (ish) boat redecked a couple of years ago so bear that in mind if buying any timber decked boat that it needs much TLC.
 
When I was buying in 2006, the same age/size Hallberg was about 50% more expensive than the 1995 Moody 44 that I ultimately bought. I couldn't see that kind of value for the money and, over 4 years of ownership, had no regrets whatsoever.
 
Did a similar exercise in 1995, between Moody, HR and Oyster. For a given space/LOA, HR and Oyster were then both significantly higher displacement, and thus steadier in a seaway. In the end, water and diesel storage won the day, with 1000 litres of water and 500 litres of diesel giving loads of cruising flexibility - to the Oyster 406 we eventually bought.

Water and diesel volumes will be different now, as will be the relative displacements. But if you're spending more than a month at a time on a boat, not needing to visit a quay every week is quite a big advantage. Of course, if you're a marina person, it's quite irrelevant. So a lot depends on your intended cruising pattern.

Hot weather of course means fridges, big battery volumes and re-charging systems. Again, no problem if you're a marina person, but pottering around Greek or Carribean anchorages is another matter.
 
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Tranona said:
That is only sustainable if demand for new boats remains strong and supply is constrained.
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It's a bit more than that. Boat brands like car brands and bike brands can get into a virtuous circle where they maintain value because people believe that they maintain value. Sure the manufacturer, if they have sense, will ensure that supply is always marginally less than demand but unlike Bav or Benny the price is not just a function of supply and demand. You pay for the label.

Put it another way, do you reckon that an HR costs 3 times as much to make as your Bav? No you don't. You pay extra for the boat with an HR but you also pay tens of thousands for the label on it.

Good business management.
 
Of course there is an element of premium pricing in it, but not sure it is as much as you think. Sweden is a very high cost country and until recently construction of the boats was very labour intensive. Over the last 4 or 5 years HR have made major changes in manufacturing to keep costs down and reduced their workforce. The interiors of the smaller boats are now machine made in a similar way to the mass producers. For the UK their pricing is even more challenging because of the low value of the £.

It will be interesting to see whether they can sustain the premium as the perceived quality gap narrows between them and some of the mass producers - or other Scandinavian builders who have moved production to places like Estonia.
 
chinita said:
Not in my experience on a HR36.

We spent a winter in a two bedroom Spanish apartment one year. We could not fit all the stuff from the galley lockers into the kitchen.

One water tank is under the cabin sole and one under the port saloon berth; you use the saloon tank first to keep the weight lower down. Fuel tank is also under the cabin sole aft of water. Any inconvenience of losing that stowage was amply compensated by the convenience of 360 litres of water for our travels.

In spite of being a Frers design we did not find the performance particularly stunning - more 'reassuring' perhaps.
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Thinking of those around 42/45'.

Other than the forepeak & stern cabin, there was no storage space, because of the large tankage.
 
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