Half a bucket of water in 3 hours

I really cannot work this on out. Spent all morning on the boat looking for a suspect.

First I cleaned dried the bilges so they were squeeky clean.

Next I opened the sea water intake and waited 15 mins to see if there was a leak before I started the engine. Nothing.

Next I ran the engine for 15 mins with it in netural and traced all the pipes. Even the sea water pump wasn't leaking. Looks like the engineer's temporary fix has worked. Dry as a bone.

Next I put it into reverse and looked again, this time also checking the stern gland .... nothing, not even a drip from where the propeller enters the gland box. I only did this for 3 mins as the boat is very close to others.

Next I ran in forward - same again, no drips and no leaks.

I wondered if the toilet sea cocks could be the culprits. We only every have these open if we are onboard. That said, I have not noticed the bilges filling up when we are (other then when we have been out sailing). So, after checking all through the bilges again, I opened the toilet seacocks and flushed the toilet several times. Nothing.

I had kept the sink seacock closed and last year we didnt have a sink (but we did have this problem) so I dont think that this is cause.

Baffled.

I am going to go back to the boat this afternoon, any suggestions gratefully recieved.
 
PhillM said:
Baffled.
Click to expand...

And you're certain this isn't a leak in the hull structure itself? To be honest, being a wooden boat, that would have been my first assumption, not that I know much about wooden boats so I'm probably over-pessimistic.

Did she leak at first when launched, until the planks took up? That's normal, but bear in mind that only the planks below the water line will have plymmed up fully, the ones between wind and water will still be dry-ish and potentially leak when you heel over under sail.

Pete
 
Came back after lunch and found some SEA water in bilges. Ran the engine again and I can feel some water beneath it, but more damp patched than puddles. There are also streaks of water from bilge compartment under the engine, but almost lots of drips connected rather than a river, if u see what I mean.

No leaks at launch. Also on Wednesday we didn't heel over during the short sail.

Am going to do a total feel over as much of the hull as I can reach this afternoon to see if any parts are wet.
 
Have you tried the talcum powder test? Dry everything off, blow talcum powder over all the skin that's reachable, then take her out. Leaks will show up in the powder.
 
peterb said:
Have you tried the talcum powder test? Dry everything off, blow talcum powder over all the skin that's reachable, then take her out. Leaks will show up in the powder.
Click to expand...

Good idea, I'll give that a go.

Thanks Prv for your input too.

"Interesting" but non productive afternoon.

I went over (stroked - but that sounded a tad strange) all areas of the hull that I could access and for those that I couldnt, I traced round the top of the bilges to see if it was damp. Found nothing.

After running the engine, then leaving it to stand, there was a trickle of water from the bilge area under it. As we are planning on re-engine in October, I will be able to access here and check that it out then.

What is confusing me is that at the pontoon, I dont get water.

When I run the engine, after it stops there is a little (perhaps 2 or 3 sponges full).

Go for a motor down the river (no heeling) and we get water.

I only have 4 sea cocks - engine, sink, heads x2. I have a manual bilge pump and an automatic bilge pump. All the plumbing was replaced over the past two years. Toilet and bilge pumps are looped above sea level so that they cannot siphon back. All around the skin fittings is dry.

I guess my nest step is to get a mate to motor down the river while I dry out the bilges and see if I can spot where the water is coming from. Prob a bit windy to do that tomorrow :(
 
I sense you are reluctant to consider anything other than engine and through hull fittings, just yet..
You could easily try standing on the aft end (with a couple of assistants, even) to immerse the transom a tad as would be the case when motoring...it may just be backflow through or around a badly fitted outlet there when immersed? Bilgepump outlet/loose exhaust outlet respectfully come to mind....

Or, as you know when motoring you get a bit of a bow and stern wave so the waterline is slightly higher at bow and stern and if the planking is dry there and hasn't taken up yet...
 
Blueboatman said:
I sense you are reluctant to consider anything other than engine and through hull fittings, just yet..
You could easily try standing on the aft end (with a couple of assistants, even) to immerse the transom a tad as would be the case when motoring...it may just be backflow through or around a badly fitted outlet there when immersed? Bilgepump outlet/loose exhaust outlet respectfully come to mind....

Or, as you know when motoring you get a bit of a bow and stern wave so the waterline is slightly higher at bow and stern and if the planking is dry there and hasn't taken up yet...
Click to expand...

I'll give these ideas a go. I do apriciate the input.

I'm not reluctant to try anything but this winter I hand sanded the whole hill and we dealt with the problems. I've checked where wr scarfed in and filled but I guess somthing else may have happened.


We do sit well aft when motoring... Good idea re exhaust outlet.
 
Do you not have any cockpit drains on your boat? On a Javelin 31 I used to sail upon the drains worked in reverse as the bow lifted at speed and we had to keep weight well forward to stop this backflow. The Javelin had a counter type stern that became immersed when at or about hullspeed.


ianat182
 
ianat182 said:
Do you not have any cockpit drains on your boat? On a Javelin 31 I used to sail upon the drains worked in reverse as the bow lifted at speed and we had to keep weight well forward to stop this backflow. The Javelin had a counter type stern that became immersed when at or about hullspeed.


ianat182
Click to expand...

Thanks for the idea. We had this problem last year in that the cockpit drains were below the water line. When the new cockpit went in we raised the floor so that they are now about 2 inches clear.

I checked them the first couple of times out (you could tell because your feel got wet last year) but I will have another look. Might be worth checking the underneath connections because if water is coming up, it might be leaking under the cockpit sole straight into the bilges.
 
Re the cockpit drains. Often the cockpit drain hoses themselves are crossed to opposite side outlets.
However, the backflow can be stopped by fixing some 1/8" sheet rubber flaps to the external outlet to act as a non-return valve when boat is in motion.

ianat182
 
ianat182 said:
Re the cockpit drains. Often the cockpit drain hoses themselves are crossed to opposite side outlets.
However, the backflow can be stopped by fixing some 1/8" sheet rubber flaps to the external outlet to act as a non-return valve when boat is in motion.

ianat182
Click to expand...

I'll check that out.

Spent more time today looking for sources but while stationary, I could not find any.

Next step is to get her out on the river under engine, with a mate on the tiller. Then I can clean out the bilges and have a closer look to see where its coming from.
 
Talcum the bilges +1, but use salt then you need not worry too much about strange white gunk in the bilges.

As an aside, if there is a suspicion of a deck leak it wouldn't hurt to put some rock salt on any horizontal bits you can find (stringers etc) to reduce risk of rot from rain ingress.
 
OK so went out today. Didn't get the chance to look at much as I wanted because it was so busy. However, I did notice that when punching wind and tide the bow is raised up and the engine exhaust is under water. It still seems to work OK and creates a mass of bubbles and froth from it - engine still seems to work fine. But I did wonder if there is some way that water could back flow into the bilges. Any ideas gratefully received.
 
To prevent back flow into the exhaust usually there is a swan neck bend in the system to avoid this. Following seas could enter the exhaust if not and give you some expensive engine repairs if not corrected,also one reason for the syphon on the exhaust water hose.


ianat182
 
Two areas of investigation come to my mind...

1. Old wooden boat, been on the hard for two years so really dried out. I'd look for the wood not taken up enough yet, especially just above the stationary waterline. As already said by another poster, bow & stern waves or even a moderate amount of heel can cause this.
I experience this every year when we launch my friend's 1945 built wooden boat. This year was particularly bad as the water was so cold meaning it took even longer than usual to take up.

2. Old rusty engine = possibly leaking/perforated core plug. They're only thin steel and can be really thinned by rust from the inside.
I know this from experience, having had my head upside down under the cockpit sole of a different friend's boat looking for the leak when the engine was running. Took a while to find it behind all the pipes and cables...
 
ianat182 said:
To prevent back flow into the exhaust usually there is a swan neck bend in the system to avoid this. Following seas could enter the exhaust if not and give you some expensive engine repairs if not corrected,also one reason for the syphon on the exhaust water hose.


ianat182
Click to expand...

There is a swan neck that comes right up to the underside of the deck.

The engine does seem to run OK with the outlet under water so i am assuming that the exhaust has the power to push fumes and water over the swan neck and then it falls out of the stern.

What is annoying is that on Sunday we had about half of the water that I got the previous Wednesday. Wednesday was light winds and no heeling, Sunday a bit more exciting and lots of heeling. I kept an eye out but the auto-pump didnt go off so we must have taken on less water in more time. Strange!

Does look like a plank take up or somthing non engine related.
 
I am not familiar with the type of boat, but I have a leak around the bow eye that is down by the waterline: doesn't leak when stationary, but underway the bow wave wets it and it leaks gently.. Something similar might be happening? I only found this through a combination of the talcum powder trick a gleaned from a forumite, and some sea sick making investigation whilst underway. Unfortunately I have to cut the bottom of my anchor locker out to get at the bolts on the back to reseat or replace it. Honestly, why do designers do stupid things like this? Deck fittings behind beautiful interior woodwork...etc
 
Hi Phil

Just read your thread and I have had this problem in the past(water only ingressing when sailing),This turned out to be a clogged one way valve on the automatic bilge pump hose,and when heeled on one tack the stern through-hull outlet was below the waterline and the motion of the boat caused seawater to sython back through the pump only to be stopped when going on the other tack.
I hope this is of help
Regards John


www.keenmarine.co.uk
 
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